01-12 George Zimmerman Case – Open Discussion Thread

Use this thread as an open thread just for Zimmerman Case stuff. A place to just dump, collect, or discuss general information about the Trayvon Martin VS George Zimmerman Case.

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218 Responses to 01-12 George Zimmerman Case – Open Discussion Thread

  1. arkansasmimi says:

    Geo and Shellie, you have came this far, just keep the faith!

    • lovemygirl says:

      I used to listen to Hugh before I lost control of most of the electronic devices in my home to my daughter and Disney. :(

  2. dmoseylou says:

    The Scheme Team Theme Song.

  3. lovemygirl says:

    Without the cooperation of the media, I don’t know how the public can be prepared to hear that George was not only Not Guilty but innocent. There are obviously those that think idiots like the Diva Lawyer are intelligent, honest people who will never be convinced, there are those that will shrug their shoulders, but the Z’s will still have millions that hate them and a few whack jobs out there for years to worry about. Other than exposing the media for what it is, which the media will not do…. It seems hopeless at times except the major media is dying so the internet is the place to replace them with the truth.
    God Speed Z’s. I can’t imagine the hardship wrought by evil liars.

    • jello333 says:

      You know the lawsuit against NBC? Well, they’re smart enough to know that if this goes to trial, the punitive damages are gonna be astronomical…. likely over $100 million. So don’t be surprised if they agree to some kind of settlement that includes a much lower money figure, but ALSO includes an agreement to produce and air some kind of “corrective” documentary. Laying it all out, showing to the whole world that George was and is totally innocent… and do it in prime-time. Or if not NBC, maybe one of the others. I’ve mentioned a few times that I think Gutman and ABC are gonna cooperate with the defense, so as to avoid the fate of others in the media. So maybe them?…

    • rumpole2 says:

      Thanks i have been forgetting to check the site.

      • ottawa925 says:

        a little more to add on the fire re: Serino … from his 2/29 interview with GZ:

        Serino: “but, you know, based on the bits and pieces I got from this other, this other unidentified witness, there’s a lot of things going standing here. Before it went to the ground. Prior to the punch. Um, and that can be…you tell me. I mean, what could possibly happen if somebody thinks you were trying to detain this person… Will it change the outcome? No. The fact is that you were on the ground getting beat up by somebody and you were in fear for your life, and you pull the trigger, and, you know, that’s, that’s excusable, that’s a justifiable homicide. Not excusable, uh, but, it’s, ah, it’s justifiable.”

    • ottawa925 says:

      This is just her being appointed on the 12-72, but what the 12-279 is I would like to know.

    • rumpole2 says:

      It looks to me like the paper work needed for Corey to continue as Special Prosecutor.

      However, the document FROM Corey extending appointments of assistants, I think is an attempt at CYA in regards her pursuit of Shellie Zimmerman. She throws Shellie’s name in as if it were part of the original mandate from the Governor.

      Seems to me like a ploy to get around the fact that she in fact exceeded her mandate in pursuing charges against Shellie.

      I have no idea if this works legally?

      Rick Scott: Continuation of Corey’s Appointment (Executive Order 12-279)

      Corey: Designation of Assistant State Attorneys and Investigators

      • lovemygirl says:

        I thought she would disappear over the hill after over charging like Dershowitz said. I really do not want to see her hideous face (nor body – sorry gals) again. Now was she compelled to continue or did she volunteer?
        Now I know the Trayvonites still think there is some “bombshell” hidden from public view, but from what I have seen, they based the charges on W#2 and W#8 and George using a few naughty words. Let’s recount, W#2 now says she saw nothing, more like heard someone running, can’t tell if it was one or two, man, woman, child or dog.. W#8 can’t even formulate a sentence in English, was 16, now 18, never saw anything and her testimony contradicts where the fight actually started, her saying he was so tired after a 3 minute break after running 25-50 yards? etc. Dang, I used naughtier words that George used after stubbing my toe.

        • ottawa925 says:

          In my readings of interviews recently, one thing that stands out is how respectful George is. Another thing that stands out is how officers keep getting the facts mixed up, i.e., again with the … OK, you called 911. GZ: no, I called non-emergency. OK, you got out of your car when the dispatcher told you not to. Then George has to correct them again to say he had lost sight of Trayvon, and was following in the direction he last saw Trayvon go in order to get an address when dispatcher asks are you following. He was nowhere near his car when dispatch asked him that. After a few reading tonight I’m not too sure these guys are the brightest bulbs in the box. Serino is very surprising on his lack of professionalism. Like after GZ told him he had ADD … later Serino says .. well how come you don’t know all the streets after living there 3 years … oh right, you have ADH, er ADD, or ADHD … or whatever you got. This is not very professional.

          Doesn’t the man take notes? He was being pressured from the get go to charge George with something. It’s the first thing you think of when you read his interviews with George. The pressure almost comes off the pages you’re reading right into your face. You can almost feel Serino sweating trying to find some kind of inconsistency with GZ’s account of the incident, but George never waivers.

          • lovemygirl says:

            I think the last page of Serino’s interview, released months after the first pages, is the tell all. The fact the last page where he stated he was pressured to file charges being released after the first pages released talk about the charges tells me people should go to jail, namely NOBLE crap “LEO” types, not real LEO, just like the fake organizations Tracy belonged to because drinking, dancing and screwing around aren’t the normal things done at a real Mason’s convention.

          • mung says:

            They were intentionally trying to trip George up.

            • justfactsplz says:

              He was trying to trip him up. Then after all the interviews he tried to be real buddy buddy with George. No scrupples.

            • libby says:

              This is the job of a good investigator…to try to trip up the guy they are interviewing…they went well beyond that, however, when the inconsistencies were minor while the inconsistencies among the martin/fulton clan were humungous. While GZ was cooperating, the martins/fultons were lawyering up and clamming up (what did they have to hide, I wonder?).

              • dmoseylou says:

                Purple Drank, Gold grillz, tats, failed F-Cats, school records, school police reports, bus driver, living with his uncle, kicked out of school AGAIN, robbery and / or stolen goods, pot, vandalism, MMA street style, FB, Twitter, drug dealing. And these are just what we know about…that’s a scary thought. What else is out there about St. Skittles that we do NOT know about?

                • jordan2222 says:

                  Didn’t someone make a post that Martin might have sold pot to someone. I think it was in an email to MOM.

                  • tara says:

                    It was the security company that is now suing GZ One of their clients apparently thought that Trademark had tried to sell pot to the client’s daughter.

                  • jordan2222 says:

                    Yes, thanks. I thought it was something like that. Strange to see such an email

        • eastern2western says:

          I am going to feel sorry about the court reporter who has to record her testimony because half of her words will sound like she is rinsing her mouth,

        • jordan2222 says:

          This still concerns me a little bit:

          there is some “bombshell” hidden from public view,

          I was reading some things about discovery today and my interpretation is that the time to release any kind of “bombshell” evidence that is incriminating has long since expired if they have had it for more than 30 days.

          OTH, there time to release all discovery has also expired but only if they play by the rules. Most of their “late” discovery has been favorable to George so maybe that doesn’t count.

          • libby says:

            the bombshells have been dropped (those that actually existed plus the fake ones).
            the case busters were all withheld as they were all excupatory. if the case busters were shown all at once from the start, this would be shown for the political persecution and get rich quick scheme it is. thus the need for careful planting of lies and obfuscations.

      • howie says:

        Hmmm. You got it. Scott is trying a new trick. She was not included in the first authorization. He is quite a character isn’t he. I don’t know it will work but can’t wait to find out. At least it shows that Shellie’s lawyer is correct in his quo warranto request.

        • LetJusticePrevail says:

          Yes, that was a slick little piece of work there. They are doing this to try to keep the charges going against Shellie without having to refile them. I doubt it will stand up if appealed to a higher court, but they are giving it the “old college try”.

          One thing this DOES prove is that Rick Scott is part of the team, beyond any shadow of a doubt.

          • jordan2222 says:

            I spoke at length when I first came here about Scott’s complicity in this case along with the other usual suspects.. Pam Bondi and Corey. I stand by what I said. Corey is NOT a pro gun advocate and Bondi is not a Republican. Do you really not think Scott had a conversation with Holder, even if only indirectly? This was far outside of his area of expertise.

            • howie says:

              Scott appears to be a crooked politician. He got in with the help of the T Party. Boy did he ever fool em.

            • LetJusticePrevail says:

              I do recall reading your earlier comments about this, but (at the time) was trying to keep an open mind about what was transpiring in Tallahassee. I knew this passed from Scott to Corey through Bondi, but also believed Scott was provided some “incentive”, either positive or negative, from the national level. With the elections over I thought this would revert to a more reasonable scenario, but the newest executive order from Scott, including Shellie’s case, seems to dash those hopes all to pieces.

          • howie says:

            I wonder if they can appoint a special prosecutor like this. Wolfinger requested it. In Shellies case there was no local prosecutor.This is going to be interesting to watch. They just slipped her name in there in the reauthorization. Can this stuff be “retroactive?”

            • LetJusticePrevail says:

              I think they will “TRY” to slip this retroactive bullcrap over on the public, but I doubt it would stand up in a superior court. bBt who knows? Stranger things have happened.

      • howie says:

        Shellie trying to bail out her husband has nothing at all to do with the death of T-con. I don’t think a special prosecutor is needed for investigation of a questionable perjury in a bond hearing. Especially one where the presiding judge has been thrown out by the court of appeals. What next in this disaster?

    • yankeeintx says:

      First thing I noticed was her signature. What is she, like 12 years old? Does she dot her “i”‘s with little smilely faces?

  4. lovemygirl says:

    Contacting her at (904) 630-7075 for anyone that has the fortitude might clear it up?

  5. ottawa925 says:

    I can’t find it, but I think Howie commented and someone else too on Serino’s revision after feverish revision until he reached is final charge.

    My answer to Serino’s charge is how do you reconcile the charge with the testimony of Santiago:

    OMARA: And what was the consensus?

    SANTIAGO: What was my consensus or the room’s consensus? .

    OMARA: Anything you want to tell me.

    SANTIAGO: I think the room’s consensus was that there wasn’t anything, that the injuries were consistent to what his statements were.

    OMARA: So the room’s consensus was that his injuries were consistent with his version of how things happened; is that accurate?

    SANTIAGO: Yes.
    OMARA: How often on a weekly basis were you guys meeting about this case?

    SANTIAGO: Daily.

    OMARA: Everyday?

    SANTIAGO: Yes.

    OMARA: In these meetings. that we were just talking about, was Investigator Serino at all of them as well?

    SANTIAGO: Yes. It was Serino, Captain O’Connor, Chief Lee, Crime Scene, myself and Randy Smith at the end.

    OMARA: Okay. What wes Serino saying about the evidence?

    SANTIAGO: He was pretty quiet the whole time.

    OMARA: Did he ever offer anything?

    SANTIAGO: That I recall, no.

    OMARA: Was anyone talking to him? I mean, at that point, he was the lead investigator, right?

    SANTIAGO: Right. we had those meetings, but I couldn’t tell you if there were other meetings beyond that. You know what I’m saying? I know I left that meeting and it was the next day when I found out that they actually filed charges on him.

    OMARA: when you say they filed charges; you’re talking about SPD?

    SANTIAGO: Right, sent the packet over.

    OMARA: But did Serino involve himself in any of those conversations, when it was being discussed that there wasn’t enough evidence to charge him with anything?

    SANTIAGO: He was quiet most of the time.

    OMARA: In the last meeting. where Smith said something about the consistency of the injuries; did Serino say anything in response to that?

    SANTIAGO: I don’t remember him saying. anything.

    OMARA: Okay. Did Serino ever evidence in any of these meetings — and we’re talking ten to twelve meetings everyday for two and a half weeks, right?

    SANTIAGO: Yeah, from that first, second day to when they filed the charges. .

    OMARA: Did you ever evidence anything that would have given you the impression in that meeting that he was considering filing charges the day after that last meeting?

    SANTIAGO: Like I said, he was quiet. He didn’t say a lot. Like I said, it was like a hit list of things to do and the bosses were talking.

    OMARA: Right, but did Serino ever contest the consensus of the room that there wasn’t enough to charge?

    SANTIAGO: Not that I recall.

    OMARA: Thank you. No further questions.

    So, Serino sits there day after day after day. Says nothing. Says nothing to support the CHARGE, that he ultimately will make. Doesn’t even elude to his fellow officers that he going to do so, then feels compelled to sit at computer and make revision after revision to come up with this charge. No wonder he hired Baez.

    • ejarra says:

      Where did you find this transcript? Link, please.

      • sundance says:

        I hate it when people drop stuff in these threads without links and citations. Actually, I am close to asking admins to moderate anyone who engages in this activity. It is the main approach of the opposition…. make up stuff, then make up more stuff to validate the original batch of made up stuff. Beyond annoying – it’s how rabbit holes are built.

        • ottawa925 says:

          Sorry, SD. The Santiago was on the GZ site if I remember correctly, however, I could not find it there when I wanted to post that section. It’s a bit confusing for me over there at GZ. I found the material at talkleft, and it was easy to find the documents I was interested in reading about. Quite frankly, since I came to CTH, I realize that much of what has been talked about here occurred long before I became a regular. Until yesterday, I didn’t even know transcripts of Serino’s interview with George existed. It’s nothing intentional, I just assumed most of the treepers had seen this stuff before. Like before I became a regular. I thought I was going over old ground but topical because of the discussion on the Serino charge. If the transcrips of Serino/GZ interview are made up or incorrect, I have no idea, but I thought the site looked like it was serious about the documents it posted. So am I to assume the Serino/GZ interview transcripts have not made their way into discovery?

      • ottawa925 says:

        ejarra, talkleft has them nicely in order here:

        • ottawa925 says:

          ejarra, notice the Serino and Singleton Interview transcripts are there too. I hadn’t seen those before and I’m not done reading them. My comments on today’s thread was just on what I had read so far. I’d like more ppl to read those interview transcripts and comment on same and see if something catches your eye. Most all of it caught MY EYE, but there are treepers here who are way smarter than me and I’d like to hear from them because I believe these early transcripts of the Serino/GZ interviews vs. Serino’s final charge are crucial, let alone the above testimony of Santiago who basically describes the lead investigator Serino as a “potted plant”. He was a plant all right. But who planted him?

          • ottawa925 says:

            Just a note as a follow up on what SD had said, I went over to GZlegalcase and did find the interviews: http://www.gzlegalcase.com/index.php?start=36
            however they are AUDIO. I had trouble opening the audio file of the 2/27 with explorer … it gave me an error (blank web page). I then used chrome to access same and it opened immediately. So after opening the 2/27 audio interview I then opened the link to the 2/27 transcript at the talkleft site: https://www.txantimedia.com/?p=999

            and I read along while listening to the audio at GZlegalcase. Except for a few minor things, it matched. So I suggest if one wants to look at the transcripts, go to GZlegalcase and listen to the interviews as you read each transcript so you know the transcript is correct.

            • jello333 says:

              Thanks, Ottawa. I think that’s what SD was referring to. I don’t think he was suggesting YOU were lying about anything. He just wants to make sure nobody can come to this site, and read something one of us posts, and then tries to accuse US (you, me, or anyone else) of making things up. So Sundance was just pointing out that it’s important to give citations/links, so that if something DOES turn out to be in error, we can point to the original source to show it was THEIR error. (At least this is how I see it…)

              • ottawa925 says:

                Yes, Jello, and thank you … I just sent SD an email offering my apology that I did not provide the links. I usually do, but I took it for granted this time, and for that I am sorry. SD’s remarks remind us that we absolutely must verify and provide the source for what we post. I hadn’t discoved the talkleft site regarding the case just a few days ago, despite reading treepers discuss that blog here on occassion. I KNOW I read that portion of the Santiago dep previously and I felt certain that it was either at the Court’s site (the filings) or at GZlegalcase. I believe it was attached as an Exhibit, but alas, I could not find it. However, it was at talkleft, and it was what I read before so I felt it was authentic, and I still believe it is. Again, apologies to SD and the treehouse for not posting the link. I need a good kick in da arse once in awhile. Keeps me on my toes.

        • ejarra says:

          Thanx for the link. I didn’t mean to get you in trouble, but…

          You asked for insight on the interviews. He’s my thoughts. Sgt. Smith, I believe he’s one of the black officers that Serino talked about pressuring him to produce charges against GZ when he was interviewed by the FBI. I see that it wasn’t until the last day of 10 to 12 meetings that Sgt. Smith disagreed with the consensus of the group (SANTIAGO: Chief Lee, Captain O’Connor, Crime Scene people, which would be Sargent Ciesla, Diane and Serino. then later on Sargent Randy Smith came to the meetings.)

          I believe that Sgt. Smith was coerced over those weeks by outside forces to go against the group.

          Here’s more from your link:

          OMARA: And with your training and experience. when you thought enough information was gathered to have made a decision; what do you think the decision should have been concerning charging Mr. Zimmerman?

          SANTIAGO: No.

          OMARA: No what?

          SANTIAGO: We shouldn’t have charged him.

          OMARA: With anything?

          SANTIAGO: No.

          OMARA: Why not?

          SANTIAGO: I think that, and like I said, everybody’s consensus in that room, including Jim Carter, was those injuries were defensive wounds.

          OMARA: What else lead to that consensus in the room?

          SANTIAGO: I think that, like I said, we were talking over the last couple days with him and from what I’ve seen, I don’t think they should have charged him. In fact, I didn’t know they charged him until the next day.

          OMARA: Who. in the room, contested that consensus?

          SANTIAGO: The last day Sargent Smith did.

          OMARA: What did he say?

          SANTIAGO: He said that he didn’t believe that those injuries were consistent with that. Jim Carter even stepped up and kind of gave him a what are you kidding me look.

          SANTIAGO: He didn’t verbalize it to me. It was to the room, not to me. When he said it, the whole room went like this, kind of looked at him. This was two and a half weeks later, and it was like why are you saying this now?

          • ottawa925 says:

            From the link nettles18 provided:

            can you or anyone else tell me what is going on from Exhibit H, page 74 of the dep, line 11 thru page 76 of the dep, line 10.

            • ejarra says:

              I had read that section several times as well as the rest of Santiago’s interview. BLDR comes across as sort of a dick with his BS objections to MOM’s phrasing of the questions.

              Now to try to answer your question. I’m guessing that Jim Carter works for the DA’s office or the SA’s office and he wasn’t happy when his part of the consensus, of Georgie’s injuries happening just as Georgie said they did, came to light. I think that it made him look bad and made his job harder. At least that is how it appears to me. I mean how can an ADA charge someone with a crime with which they feel and made know that there NOT is enough evidence.

              That’s my interpretation of that section.

          • nomatter_nevermind says:

            Sgt. Smith, I believe he’s one of the black officers . . .

            AFAIK there is only one Sgt. Smith on the case. He was the driver in the reenactment (p. 8 ).

            • ejarra says:

              OopsI I got Sgt. Smith mixed up with Sgt. Barnes. It was Barnes, Perkins and Villenova that pressured Serino according to the FBI report. Still, I find it odd that Smith came out like that on the last day.

              • libby says:

                Were they the ones who were fired from SPD WITHOUT explanation.
                recalll serino was said to have stepped down (I forget the made up reason why)

                • ejarra says:

                  I believe they were the ones. I forgot about that. The firing was sort of hush-hush as to not draw to much attention to why.

                  • libby says:

                    The news media prefers to HIDE examples of black racism (just as the feds refuse to address black racism).
                    keep in mind that black institutions are no longer powerless, they are very racist and it is the feds whose job it should be to address black institutions’ institutional bias against whites (unless you think hating whitey is a good thing)

          • LouDaJew says:

            racist blacks rooting for blacks. just like after the OJ trial, the blacks were all yelling in synchronicity “Let my People Go”.

      • nettles18 says:

        This was Exhibit “H” in the defense’s motion to Modify the Conditions of Release filed on December 7th and posted on the defense site.

    • John Galt says:

      “So, Serino sits there day after day after day. Says nothing. Says nothing to support the CHARGE, that he ultimately will make. Doesn’t even elude to his fellow officers that he going to do so, then feels compelled to sit at computer and make revision after revision to come up with this charge. No wonder he hired Baez.”

      Can’t speak, can’t analyze, can’t write cogently (even after numerous revisions). How did this guy become a homicide investigator?

      • howie says:

        The charge he filed clearly indicates the police evidence shows Martin to be a felon. It in no uncertain terms indicts Martin as being killed in the process of committing a felony. That was the charge that Wolfie was taking to the grand jury. I think the charge is why Corey was appointed and Wolfie forced out. The charge would have stopped Crump and the Schemer’s in their tracks. It had to be 2nd degree murder for them. Corey delivered the required charge for the scheme to continue.
        Question….If it ever went to trial how could the 3rd degree charge be included as a lesser charge> Since if proven it would exonerate Zimmerman of 2nd degree? How crazy is this? The scheme team is the perfect description of all the players in the tragedy/travesty.

      • Knuckledraggingwino says:

        Serino is a prime example of the deterioration in police competence which has resulted in clearance rates for murder declining from 90% to 98% back in the early 1960s to ~65% today. Keep in mind that a lot of today’s homicides that are “cleared” are “cleared through extraordinary means,” rather than by the arrest of an alleged perpetrator. Conviction rates are dismal in many jurisdictions because the investigation is so shoddy. The only homicides that police continue to have a near perfect clearance rate on are homicides of police officers. This is in stark contrast to the fact that 2/3 of homicides of teenaged and young adult, Black males are never solved even by extraordinary means.

        As the outlaw biker bounty hunter in “Raising Arizona said, “if you want to catch an outlaw, call an outlaw. If you want to find a donut shop, call a cop.”

      • jello333 says:

        But you gotta admit, he LOOKS good while he’s “on the case”. With the shades, and the concerned expressions…. dude looks like something straight out of a TV detective drama. ;)

    • jello333 says:

      And Bernie could take a lesson from MOM on how to do interviews/depositions:

      OMARA: And what was the consensus?

      SANTIAGO: What was my consensus or the room’s consensus? .

      OMARA: Anything you want to tell me.

      See? Even though he had a great opening to do so (because of Santiago’s question), MOM refused to use leading questions, or put words in the witness’s mouth.

      • tara says:

        If Bernie had done this with DD2, the interview would have been the shortest on record! DD1 had plenty to say but DD2 was like an empty cave.

  6. rumpole2 says:

    Daily Daft Posts from Justarse Quest

    Even after 10 months, the wilfully ignorant still say GZ was told to stay in his truck

    Random Topics


    • ottawa925 says:

      Why should it surprise you? I just posted under Lovemygirl that Serino did the same thing. scroll up and you’ll see what I said.

      • rumpole2 says:

        I came back and saw your post.
        I’m not surprised….. it’s just a daily service to point out at least one daft post at JQ :D

        Besides Serino… interviewers and guests discussing the case STILL repeat the meme
        “Zimmerman was told to stay in his truck”
        Legal “experts” even.. as I pointed out in a previous thread in comments about a video clip of some legal panel.
        Propaganda does work. The Scheme Team Narrative did get in.
        Returning to JQ…. those wilfully ignorant old hags actually believe that George was TOLD to stay in his truck. They will believe that until the day they die. You could strap them down and play the NEN call to them and the “new” information would not get in.
        It is the way of forum cretins. Sad but true.
        I have no doubt it will be said in court (if there is a trial) I would not be surprise to hear Nelson say it. I am sure Bernie will say it. Maybe MOm and WEST need a big sign seen by jury throughout the trial


        But even so.. the jury pool is the same as the forum posters pool *sigh*

        • libby says:

          I would suggest that when Trayvon was suspended from school, he was effectively told to “stay home”. And if trayvon had been in his dad’s house (brandy, not tracey), he would still be alive. Tracey claimd trayvon had been punished, but as we all know punishment means different things in different communities.
          At the treehouse, being grounded means you stay home, you lose your phone, you stay off of drugs, you get extra supervision from your parents (if you levae the house, it is not alone, it is only with your parents or responsible relatives, not irresponsoible relatives).
          being grounded in the martin/fulton clan means being left alone (possible for days) with $100 and being awarded conasiderable freedom to felonious assault those who are trying to protect a local neighborhood

          • libby says:

            Trayvon was told by school officials to “STAY HOME”. If he had stayed home, like the school had told him, tryavon would still be alive

            • LouDaJew says:

              the state only has this one argument about he shouldn’t have left his truck. if anything, it was poor judgment, but not gross negligence. gross negligence is more on the lines of shooting a person by accident as a joke. the case really boils down to this. George wasn’t following Trayvon, he was “looking” for Trayvon as the dispatcher asked him “let me know if he does anything else”.

              • howie says:

                He will depo the dispatcher. BDLR is just throwing this up for fool fodder.

              • rumpole2 says:

                I don’t go along with the line that it was even “poor judgement” on Georges part…

                A line just to appease Traybots. They can not be appeased! They are the sort who will STILL invade Poland no matter how much Lebensraum you try and appease them with.

                George was quite correct to get out of his truck. The NEN operator ASKED him to keep an eye on the suspect. Once TM ran out of site, George was obliged to get out of his truck and try and see where TM went… as the NEN operator asked (twice).
                Besides, it is what most reasonable people would do. I would. George was in the process of reporting a suspicious person and directing LE to that suspect. It would be silly to sit in his truck and just say DUH!! when the cops arrived.

                • jello333 says:

                  And don’t forget… in addition to the two “let me know if this guy does anything else” statements, was the later, “He’s running? Which way is he running?” So yeah, whether he intended it or not, Sean was in effect ASKING George to get out of the truck.

                • jordan2222 says:

                  You nailed it. The ONLY way to interpret Sean’s conversation is that he wanted more information that could only be obtained by getting out of his vehicle. I fail to see how ANYONE could see that any other way. Isolate that portion and listen to it.. then get someone who has never heard it to listen only to that part of the exchange and ask them what Sean was saying. I am 100 percent convinced that George honestly believed he was following “instructions” to get out of his vehicle.

                  So to me the instructions were to get out of the truck not to stay in it. Yet people refuse to say it like that….even many of us here. Why are we tip toeing around this? It’s almost as if the people who support George are afraid or too timid to directly confront what Crump and others have said. Nuff said.

                  • jordan2222 says:

                    I see now after making my post that others are now in the same camp about the instructions meaning to get out of the truck.

                • Sharon says:

                  This whole mess is not about what George did that night.

                  It’s about what Al and JJ did a few days later as they made use of the complicit media and judicial system, just doing what the Justice Bros have always done, merrily making money on other people’s misery with their favorite tools–lies and distortions.

                  This whole mess has only brief and incidental contact with the choices George made. The decades-long surrender by the judicial system to the racialists’ plan of action (first set in place ‘long about 1972 in the post-60’s when everyone was just so relieved that the torching of college campae had stopped) is the destructive bubble wrap that fills their box.

              • jello333 says:

                Yeah, but I won’t even agree with the “poor judgment” part. No… unless George was clairvoyant, he had no reason to suspect that leaving his vehicle would eventually lead to any problems. I just don’t see that George did much AT ALL wrong that night. Certainly not legally, and not even morally or common-sensibly (is that a word?) in my opinion.

                • justfactsplz says:

                  I agree up to that point. However, I strongly feel like George should have gone to the hospital and lawyered up immediately. I know being innocent he thought it would be okay but look what they have done to him.

                  • jordan2222 says:

                    NO ONE would disagree with that but things happen for a reason. That’s between God and him and I pray that he will figure that out.

                  • jello333 says:

                    Oh yeah… but I was only talking about the shooting itself, and what led up to it. As for the later stuff, like George not going to the hospital and asking for a lawyer… yeah, I’m sure he knows NOW that would have been best. But under the circumstances, it’s hard to say how ANY of us would have reacted to all that was going down.

                  • justfactsplz says:

                    For sure. I don’t even know for sure what I would do under that kind of stress.

                  • libby says:

                    if George had lawyered up and went to the hospital,
                    the news media would have made it seem like he had a mountain to hide.
                    “Why hadnt he answered the cops questions that night?”
                    The news media would have made fun of him if he had gotten an MRI that night just as they made a big deal of him not gettign an mri that would have only confirmed, but not actually helped his condition (mri’s dont help concussions, though they can sometims confirm they exist).

                  • justfactsplz says:

                    He was darned if he did and darned if he didn’t.

                  • jello333 says:

                    I know, you’re right. There’s really two aspects to what George did/didn’t do; one of them bad, one of them good. The bad, is as we’ve all been saying from the start: If George had gone to the hospital, and had he gotten a lawyer right away, chances are the legal process would have gone a lot more smoothly. They may have even been able to force the charges to be dropped long ago (if his lawyer did a really good job from the start). But on the other hand, something good has come out of this…. or I should say, WILL EVENTUALLY come out of this. And that’s concerning what you just said. The fact that George did NOT lawyer up immediately just goes to show how thoroughly confident he was in his innocence. And it also shows some naivety toward the “justice” system (quite the opposite of the “manipulative” person some make him out to be). And by the time this is over, and George is exonerated, that’s gonna help people (at least open-minded people) understand just what a railroad job this was.

                    Eh, don’t know how much sense I’m making. Basically I’m just saying that while George not lawyering up was the wrong thing to do LEGALLY, when it comes to the impact on public opinion, I think (in the long run) it’s gonna help him.

            • eastern2western says:

              actually, if tracy would had stayed faithful to his wife, trayvon would still be alive.

        • ejarra says:

          If the “was told to stay in the truck” issue comes up again, MOM needs to play that portion of the NEN where Sean asked him to “let him know if he does anything else.”

          While in the truck Georgie was asked TWICE to let Sean know if Mr. Martin does anything else. If Georgie looses sight of Mr. Martin, how can he accomplish what Sean asked of him without leaving the confines of the truck. I can’t be done, so by using simple logic he had to “get out of the truck”.

        • janc1955 says:

          As far as I know, unless an officer at the scene told GZ to stay in his truck, there’s no one on God’s green earth who had the authority to tell George, OR ANYONE, to stay in their truck in their own neighborhood when they aren’t doing a thing but trying to keep in sight a suspicious character who may or may not be intent on burglarizing or re-burglarizing residents of said neighborhood, AS HAD HAPPENED REPEATEDLY. It annoys me no end that anyone believes it was GEORGE who should have done something differently. He had every right to do every damned thing he did that evening.

          • justfactsplz says:

            You got that right!

          • libby says:

            your problem, forgive me for my impertinence, but you obviously are acribing rights to a percieved white man. since we know trayvon was a minority, he had all the rights and none of the responsibilities. Since George was the percieved minority, he obviously had no rights whatsoever and he had all the responsibilities.
            this is how the media thinks, this is how our president thinks.
            there is only the pretense of equality; no actual equality is sought.
            the racists in this case have been taught that we should judge folks on the color of their skin, not the contents of their character (heck, they even claim it is racist to examine the content of trayvon’s character while they make up lie after lie about George’s character).
            Yeah, if i hadnt been railroaded myself like GZ had been (not exactly, but close enough), much of this case wouldnt be so BLATANTLY obvious.

            • libby says:

              ooops, george was the percieved white guy (by trayvon first and later the news morons)

            • janc1955 says:

              Libby — :D. But seriously … as ludicrous as your “impertinent” response sounds, it’s right on point. Those of us not “of color” (borrowing from the “Law Diva” Natalie Jackson) … which as we know for some reason includes the clearly Hispanic George Zimmerman … need to just shut the hell up and sit the hell down while those “of color” have extra-free freedom to say and do and take whatever they please. And not only should those not “of color” stay seated and quiet, they should not even LOOK IN THE DIRECTION of those “of color” for any reason whatsoever, so as not to offend. These people have lost their freakin minds. I have never been a victim, and I’ll be damned in the interest of political correctness if I’ll stay seated and quiet in the face of an impending threat.

    • diwataman says:

      I’ve had people follow me before. It’s not as scary as the movies make it out to be. That’s what’s wrong with these people. Too many movies.

      • ftsk420 says:

        Depends on who’s following you.

        • jello333 says:

          True. But for some strange reason, I just can NOT imagine a guy like Trayvon being “scare” of George. He’s just NOT what I’d call a scary person. ;)

          • libby says:

            He might be if you were trying to burglarize an apartment of his friends or neighbors

          • ftsk420 says:

            I agree George isn’t a scary guy at all but I would take notice of someone in a car following me. I would check to see if more then one person was in the car with him which is what I believe Trayvon did. If I had nothing to hide or no bad intentions I would ask what he wanted if I had drugs on me or was looking to get into trouble I would run and hide force him to get out of his truck and jump him when he couldn’t find me.

      • jello333 says:

        They watch too many films…. too many films for real.

        (Yeah, I’m a Tricky fan.)

      • pet says:

        About a year ago, I was in my backyard at my secret secluded outdoor pee spot when a pickup pulled up across the street and a guy got out and started going through the neighbor’s garbage. We had some burglaries in the neighborhood previously. I zipped up and grabbed my keys and went out front and got in my truck and started following him. He was driving erratically all around the neighborhood ‘literally checking out all the houses’ – which is a one way in and out subdivision. He was up and down every cul de sac. I would wait for him to come out, and follow keeping an eye on him. He finally took notice and turned around and pulled up next to me. Confrontation time!!!!

        Why are you following me?

        Who are you?

        I’m Joe Doe. I live over there. I run a recycling business and I look for recylable stuff in the garbage the night before trash day. Here’s my card.

        Well Howdy neighbor. Nice to meet you. I live over there. Carry on. Just watching out for the neighborhood.

        Sure. I understand

        Or……..He could have walked over and feloniously cold-cocked me and I would have responded with………

        Choices, Decisions, and stuff………………………..

  7. dmoseylou says:

    They are just kids, doing what all kids do.

    • rooferx says:

      But the injuries are not bad enough……. These fools that say this crap should look at these fights. Look at how they are constantly swinging and connecting but very little damage is done (from just looking at them). This is just the type of behavior that GZ and W6 described.

    • LouDaJew says:

      I saw somwething similar in Miami a couple of weeks ago. all were black. many were jumping on cars. some broke windshields. wish I had a vid cam.

  8. eastern2western says:

    even marcia clark implied the prosecution was hiding the photo. Judging from her anger, she is wonderring why she did not had some type of sunshine law when she was prosecuting oj.

    • John Galt says:

      “We still have to believe George Zimmerman’s version of the event in order to acquit him.”

      Marcia Clark = FAIL

      State has the burden to prove Z guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. As Gilbreath testified under oath, the State has no evidence to rebut Z’s version of the event. We don’t have to believe Zimmerman, the State must prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he did not act in self-defense. ZIMMERMAN IS PRESUMED INNOCENT.


      The defendant has entered a plea of not guilty. This means you must presume or believe the defendant is innocent. The presumption stays with the defendant as to each material allegation in the [information] [indictment] through each stage of the trial unless it has been overcome by the evidence to the exclusion of and beyond a reasonable doubt.

      To overcome the defendant’s presumption of innocence, the State has the burden of proving the crime with which the defendant is charged was committed and the defendant is the person who committed the crime.

      The defendant is not required to present evidence or prove anything.


      Read in all cases.
      If in your consideration of the issue of self-defense you have a reasonable doubt on the question of whether the defendant was justified in the use of deadly force, you should find the defendant not guilty.


      “The bottom line is that Zimmerman cannot be convicted of murder or manslaughter unless the evidence shows beyond a reasonable doubt that he did not act in self-defense.”

      • howie says:

        The 2012 Florida Statutes

        Title XLVI
        Chapter 782
        View Entire Chapter
        782.02 Justifiable use of deadly force.—The use of deadly force is justifiable when a person is resisting any attempt to murder such person or to commit any felony upon him or her or upon or in any dwelling house in which such person shall be.
        History.—ss. 4, 5, ch. 1637, 1868; RS 2378; ch. 4967, 1901; s. 1, ch. 4964, 1901; GS 3203; RGS 5033; CGL 7135; s. 66, ch. 74-383; s. 1, ch. 75-24; s. 45, ch. 75-298; s. 1197, ch. 97-102.

        Justifiable homicide is the defense.

        • howie says:

          The 2012 Florida Statutes

          Title XLVI
          Chapter 782
          View Entire Chapter
          782.11 Unnecessary killing to prevent unlawful act.—Whoever shall unnecessarily kill another, either while resisting an attempt by such other person to commit any felony, or to do any other unlawful act, or after such attempt shall have failed, shall be deemed guilty of manslaughter, a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
          History.—s. 13, ch. 1637, 1868; RS 2388; GS 3213; RGS 5043; CGL 7145; s. 719, ch. 71-136.

          This is what Serino attempted to charge Zimmerman with. Now. Serino in his charging makes it clear that Martin was in the process of a felony when Zimmerman killed him. This was Crump’s problem. Ya can’t make money if your clients son was killed while perping a felony.

          • debfrmhell says:

            Serino’s Capias has 782.07 listed. Manslaughter; aggravated manslaughter of an elderly person or disabled adult; aggravated manslaughter of a child; aggravated manslaughter of an officer, a firefighter, an emergency medical technician, or a paramedic.

            The Florida definition of a child is under the age of 18.

            • howie says:

              I think it was .11.

            • debfrmhell says:

              (3) A person who causes the death of any person under the age of 18 by culpable negligence under s. 827.03(2)(b) commits aggravated manslaughter of a child, a felony of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

              I was merely commenting on the 782.07 v 782.11

              In criminal cases under the age of 18 is the legal definition of child. EX: If a 17yr old commits a crime he can be charged as an adult. Just as the 13yr old that Corey had tried as an adult.

              And in case you didn’t know, I am a supporter of Zimmerman. I don’t believe that this was grossly overcharged. I don’t believe that charges should have been brought against him at all.

              My Mantra:
              Until someone can reasonably explain how it is that Martin, after approximately 4+min, found himself back at that “T” intersection and at virtually the same place from which he disappeared from view, George Zimmerman will always have a solid Self-Defense case. Martin either doubled back, laid in wait or some combination of both is a clear signal of Martin’s INTENT.

              I have seen nothing from the State that they have even addressed that point.

            • howie says:

              On 3/6 the Serino offense report was for 782.11 I am looking at it.

          • Sayers says:

            What felony? I thought Trayvon was walking home from the store.
            George should have followed the rules for NW.. and if not, at least identified himself.. This was a senseless killing.

            • eastern2western says:

              yes, less skip the part about trayvon jumping on zimmerman and knocked him to the ground. last time I checked, following some one from a distance and calling the cops do not break any laws. can inform me which law did zimmerman broke until he had to shoot martin?

            • MJW says:

              Aggravated assault.

            • jello333 says:

              Exactly. As we’ve discussed before here:

              When Trayvon punched George, knocked him to the ground, got on top of him and beat on him, threatening his life, he was committing no crime. As it says in Florida statute 142.8, subsection 19(5b):

              “When a person under the age of 18 is engaged in the pursuit of his ‘Ground and Pound’ merit badge, any actions he might take which could otherwise be a violation of criminal statute shall, if committed in furtherance of that goal, be deemed justified, and therefore not of a criminal nature.”

              • rumpole2 says:

                Then there is the 33 amendment to the Florida Constitution.
                If a person just turned 17 (to wit a “Chile”) is in possession of a bag of “Skittles” candy, in combination with “Iced Tea” or Ice tea “equivalent” (to wit Water Melon fruit juice), then said Chile shall be deemed to be “Da Victim”.
                If shot and killed in the perpetration of what would otherwise be a crime, Da Chile is exonerated posthumously ,and has his character and school grades automatically rest to “Angel” levels.

                • jello333 says:

                  George better hurry up and take a plea while he’s still got the chance.

                  • dmoseylou says:

                    Don’t Stop Now! You guys are on a troll, er, I mean a roll. :lol:

                  • rumpole2 says:

                    Let the good times Troll

                  • jordan2222 says:

                    Does anyone find it odd that the State never offered him a deal? IF that is what they and Crump wanted, why not?

                  • jello333 says:

                    I think they waited too long. If they had done it right after the arrest, and while the protests and stuff were still going on, you never know what George would have done. Especially since MOM wasn’t yet up to speed on the case, and didn’t yet know George as a person. Had the State at that point offered something relatively low-level, like negligent homicide or something that would give him no more that about 5 years or so, I can imagine George and MOM considering it. But fortunately that didn’t happen. By the time the prosecution realized things were turning against them, and the truth was finally getting out there, there was NO WAY George would take a plea, or MOM allow him to take one. At that point the State knew that ANYTHING they offered would be turned down. “How ’bout unlawful discharge of a firearm in the city limits? A year in jail, and we’ll agree to time served and a little probation?” If word got out that the State had offered something like that, and even THAT was turned down? Wow…. how bad would THAT look for them?

                  • jordan2222 says:

                    I hear you jello but what about Crump? All he wanted was some kind of plea.. any kind.. so he must have gotten pissed at some point when they did not offer one. Don’t you think he discussed that with the State?

                    That said, at some point, someone is bound to say “the hell with this. I ain’t going down with Crump.” He is not smart or shrewd or powerful enough to keep their silence.

                  • howie says:

                    Note the report they cite is “verified” by Smith. He is the “black” sgt. It has the needed by Crump cite of negligence.

                • libby says:

                  you know Rumpole,
                  the 33rd amendment only aplies if you also have weed in your system, if you been huffing glue or sippin lean.

            • justfactsplz says:

              Read the evidence lately? Guess not, huh?

            • nameofthepen says:

              Sayers says: “What felony? I thought Trayvon was walking home from the store.”

              Oh. Well, there’s your problem. This did not happen while TM was walking home from the store.

              It happened AFTER that. AFTER he reached home, then doubled back to assault George.

              You’re welcome. Glad I could help you clear that up. ;)

      • david says:

        After Clark said that my first thought was how did Oj work out for you Marcia!

  9. Ricky Jimenez says:

    Suppose Florida, like Colorado and many other states, required a preliminary hearing of the evidence against Zimmerman before a felony indictment was granted. Sybrina Fulton, W2 and DeeDee would have had to publicly testify and I think a half way decent lawyer would have publicly shown it ridiculous to rely on their testimony for probable cause, as related in the Affidavit of Probable Cause, especially for 2nd degree murder. I don’t think a judge would have granted an indictment. The posters here have a more easily realized objective than disbarring Crump and Jackson in order to prevent similar aberrations of justice in the future. Have any bills been introduced in the Florida legislature to take care of this?

    • Grand jury should be mandatory for any murder charge. In federal court, any criminal charge that can result in a year or more of incarceration must go before a grand jury for indictment. Why not the state?

      • Ricky Jimenez says:

        The case against grand juries is that they are secret (= star chamber), only hear from the prosecution, “would indict a ham sandwich”, not found outside of the US, dropped by Great Britain where they originated in 1933. That is why Colorado and other states have gone to the preliminary hearing route for felony indictments.

        • canadacan says:

          Looked at diwataman’s blog
          He feels that George is going to trial not because he’s obviously innocent but because of politics. George will go free I just want him to make a lot of money and some of his law suits.

          • justfactsplz says:

            I don’t see how they can proceed to trial if Omara proves the whole Dee Dee thing to be a farce.

            • jordan2222 says:

              Dman is one one of the most knowledgeable people here. He provides us with info that most of us would never find.

              His other purpose is to be the eternal pessimist to keep us on guard and remind us that anything can happen here.

              For me, the eternal optimist, what Dman says constantly ‘haunts” me at least enough that I will not be totally devastated if things don’t go like we expect them too. He prepares us for the worst.

              Subscribe to his blog and watch your hear sink every time you get a notification of a new post.

              He is a great asset here, not just for information but for emotional balance.

              Does that makes sense?

              • nameofthepen says:

                Hey, Jordan – Yes, makes perfect sense to me. It makes the forward-thinkers among us realize this game just might have to go into “overtime” to be won.

                • tara says:

                  Or realize that sometimes justice is not served. Unfortunately there are many wrongfully convicted people sitting in prisons right now. I pray that George does not become one of them. Meanwhile, Casey Anthony roams free.

                  • nameofthepen says:

                    Tara – SO true! I couldn’t agree more.

                    Gosh, regarding Casey Anthony, I guess we must hold tightly to, and derive comfort from, Blackstone’s famous formulation:

                    “Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer.”

        • Georges best chance of avoiding this whole fiasco was with the grand jury. Any judge would have been pressured into charging him. Look at Lester, by all accounts he had been a fair prior to the Zimmerman case, but he commits act so egregious that he is replaced by the appellant court. In my mind either some got to him or he was scared for his safety.

          Secret grand jury was Georges only chance.

          • Ricky Jimenez says:

            If a judge decides to indict after a preliminary hearing, he/she has to write a report, based on the hearing, explaining why the evidence does show probable cause. Lester just volunteered the the “case was strong” without offering an explanation; the bail hearing did not call any of the witnesses mentioned in the affidavit. I suppose we have different imaginations. I can’t imagine a judge listening to Sabrina, Witness#2 and DeeDee and regarding what they said as sufficient for a Murder2 indictment. And the defense can present witnesses at such a hearing if they desire. They can’t do that in front of a grand jury. I don’t have any statistics but I believe prosecutors get close to 100% of the indictments they ask for from grand juries.

            • myopiafree says:

              HI Ricky, You are correct on a number of points. If the prosecutor wishes to indict, the Grand Jury will probably “go along” with what the prosecutor wants – MAYBE. Norm Wolfinger (who had reason to believe George was innocent ), would have presented his case to the G. J. I truly believe that the G. J. would have turned in a “No Bill”, and that would have ended this FARCE. The G. J. does not convict – it just determines if there is enough evidence to GO TO TRIAL. In fact there is no such evidence – but it would have been presented – including our “lost” DeeDee. Just my opinion.

          • justfactsplz says:

            I believe someone got to Lester and he was scared for his safety also.

    • skeptiktank says:

      Exellent point, Ricky! Corey signs and affidavit, Judge Herr rubber stamps it, and it’s a done deal. No real evidence necessary. Perhaps this weakness in the system will be addressed once GZ is acquitted (Cough).

  10. brutalhonesty says:

    over on IS they are still on the “he didnt have a valid permit” lie, and look at this ownage:

    CallieCupcake Brown So are ya’ll saying the governor was in on a fake permit also… LMAO!!
    Florida Governor Refuses to Suspend Zimmerman’s Gun Permit
    Thus far, Scott’s administration is defending its decision to keep Zimmerman’s permit active, arguing that “short of a permit holder being convicted of a felony, the state does not have the authority to revoke a permit.”
    2 minutes ago · Unlike · 4

  11. david says:

    LOL…..Trent aka State Of The Cabbage Patch parody

  12. eastern2western says:

    according to the naacp, george zimmerman is not color enough to be protected under the syg laws. when it comes to their own people, they want the syg laws. However, when they see the law protecting a half afro-peruvian and jewish man, they say the law is wrong and they want to change them. sure, dude, I guess the change naacp wants to put into the syg laws is that it should be exclusively use for naacp members only, other color people should not apply

    • LouDaJew says:

      the 10-20-Life Law is an awkward law. she doesn’t deserve 20 years, but she wasn’t assaulted by Trayvon Martin either. she should be ordered to stay away from her husband for life. that would be sufficient. she should have to perform community service, but that’s about it.

      • jordan2222 says:

        Weird how so many people from out of state think we have lax gun laws.You do not want anywhere near a crime scene if you have a gun here.

    • libby says:

      As explained previously,
      They dont want anything that appears anything like equality.
      They hate what MLK stood for. They dont want any of us judged by the content of our characters. They want us all judged by the content of our skin.

  13. pet says:

    Reality summed up in 3 easy cartoon frames…………………


  14. LouDaJew says:

    I linvite any white flighters to come visit Miami Gardens for a week. eat in a fast food restaurant, and drive at 3AM. you will see the real deal. I especially would love to see Piers Morgan driving through Miami Gardens Drive in Miami Gardens at 3AM. he’d be sheettin in his pants with his unarmed self. LOL

    • justfactsplz says:

      That would be worth the price of admission to see that. Maybe it would scare him back across the pond.

    • thefirstab says:

      LDJ – “…Morgan driving through Miami Gardens….with his unarmed self.”
      HAHAHA – and yet, not funny. I know you remember hearing of tourists who ended up dead, for finding themselves in the wrong area.
      And this is nothing new! I had a week-long business conferencen dwntwn Miami many yrs ago. This was during well-publicized random shootings of tourists in obvious rental cars. During a weekend break, I decided to rent a vehicle to drive up I-95 to visit my folks. Guess what I got? A blue Taurus. I pitched a fit, but there was nothing else available. I was absolutely petrified until I crossed the Broward line. Hate Miami. I am sure many big cities have this issue.

      • jordan2222 says:

        In most cities in America, there are many black “communities” where white people would not dare go. I wonder why.

    • tara says:

      Lou, you got it right. The biggest sympathizers are the ones who have never ever seen “the real deal”. We all know their sympathy would buy them nothing if their car broke down while they were passing through….

  15. LouDaJew says:

    the best part about the whole Justice for Trayvon movement was when they took their show to Bayfront Park. From what I saw on TV, I didn’t see any whites. they knew what this was about. it was Hate Whitey day.

    • tara says:

      Donate wastebaskets to the family! *

      * wastebaskets full of money only, please

      I see Jesse Jackson is in that video. He’s busy drumming up support because his dumb son and wife both resigned from their political jobs and now father needs to support this loser family.

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