01-09 George Zimmerman Case – Open Discussion Thread

Use this thread as an open thread just for Zimmerman Case stuff. A place to just dump, collect, or discuss general information about the Trayvon Martin VS George Zimmerman Case.

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373 Responses to 01-09 George Zimmerman Case – Open Discussion Thread

    • sundance says:

      Did you read the supplement with all the Serino statements?

      I read all 52 pages and found the shifts to be interesting. The number of GZ screams, the notification from the Dr. about the broken nose, etc etc….

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      • diwataman says:

        I started going through it and taking note of every change from the first one to the one that was released long ago. I didn’t get far enough in to any good stuff.

        Like

      • Bill D says:

        I find the entire sequence of post-shooting events to be infuriating. First, of course, is the conduct of the lawyers and other mouthpieces. But that wouldn’t be so bad if journalists actually did their jobs. Isn’t it part of reporting to actually do some fact-finding and THEN write something, rather than accept everyone’s statements as fact? After the Brawley and Duke rape cases, I’d expect any self respecting journalist or editor to take a beep breath before posting any ‘hapless black youth gets shot’ story. Then there is the enormous flock of self-flagellating whites that immediately indulged in those ludicrous displays of solidarity known as ‘hoodie up’ demonstrations. I wonder, now that the whole story is unraveling, if they’ll have a ‘hoodie up retraction’ protest….probably not. As in the case of the Duke Lacrosse players, I hope that when the case (it barely deserves to be called that) is over that George Zimmerman will sue the heck out of everyone who so much as looked at him in the wrong way.

        Like

        • jello333 says:

          “After the Brawley and Duke rape cases, I’d expect any self respecting journalist or editor to take a [d]eep breath before posting any ‘hapless black youth gets shot’ story.”

          Yeah, you’d think, wouldn’t you? Part of the reason I fell for the lies when this story first broke is exactly that. I recalled the Duke and Sharpton stuff, and I knew that almost everyone (incl. the MSM) now know those were frauds. And so I just assumed that SURELY it couldn’t happen again without people, esp. the MSM, taken a much closer look. In other words, THIS one (the GZ/TM case) must be for real. Yes, it sounded like something straight out of Mississippi Burning, but still… the media SURELY wouldn’t play along in another racially-based FRAUD… would they?

          Ha!

          Like

          • libby says:

            The next time al charlatan and jesse just me jackson shows up, KNOW it is fake, whatever it is and especially if the news media is on board

            Like

      • John Galt says:

        “I read all 52 pages and found the shifts to be interesting.”

        Apparently interesting enough that Serino felt the need to lawyer up.

        Like

        • LetJusticePrevail says:

          And “lawyer up” he DID, with a VERY high profile attorney, I might add.

          Like

          • libby says:

            Hmm,
            I wonder what he has to hide. Even GZ had the guts to testify without a lawyer.
            I bet chump, & jackson, parks and bdlr all have to bring lawyers with them (since i imagine they al have a lot to hdie)

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        • nomatter_nevermind says:

          Serino needed to lawyer up because he told an Orlando Sentinel reporter the opposite of what he said in a sworn statement.

          I don’t see anything in the multiple drafts that is incriminating in itself. I do see strong corroborating evidence that the report and capias request were submitted in bad faith.

          The the final report and capias request don’t discuss the elements or manslaughter, much less explain how their analysis is related to those elements. We now know that is also true of the earlier drafts, which lack discussion of the elements of manslaughter or murder two. The change from one to the other seems completely arbitrary, not justified by any other changes in the text.

          Like

          • nomatter_nevermind says:

            That’s ‘elements of manslaughter’ for ‘elements or manslaughter’.

            No edit function, and no preview. Sigh.

            Like

        • nomatter_nevermind says:

          From a first perusal, I think most of the changes are to statements about Zimmerman not engaging Martin in conversation. I’m guessing that polishing this argument was the reason for the multiple drafts.

          Only four of the five documents are early drafts of Zimmerman’s full report. 1:54 (pp. 24-25) is just two pages, including the cover page. It seems to be an early draft of the capias request.

          It also seems to be an incomplete draft. It ends by stating that there is probable cause to charge Zimmerman with manslaughter, but nowhere does it say that Martin is dead. It doesn’t say Martin was shot, or mention that Zimmerman was armed.

          Here’s something that made the final draft, of the report and the capias request, that seems to have been added in the fourth draft of the report.

          ‘Investigation reveals that on August 3, August 4, and October 6, 2011, and February 2, 2012, George Zimmerman reported suspicious persons, all young Black males, in the Retreat neighborhood to the Sanford Police Department. According to records checks, all of Zimmerman’s suspicious person calls while residing in the Retreat neighborhood have identified Black males as the subjects.’

          Like

          • jello333 says:

            “According to records checks, all of Zimmerman’s suspicious person calls while residing in the Retreat neighborhood have identified Black males as the subjects.”

            Ok, from everything I know about this case, that’s just not true. Another thing, it’s also been reported that George made something like 40 calls in the previous year… but it turns out those calls were actually over the space of the previous 8 or so years (including before moving into the Retreat). But what DID occur over just the previous year, was that ALL the people who lived in the community made, on the whole, several hundred calls…. in just one year. That should tell you a lot about how things were going there. Oh, and something I just thought about, concerning the claim that George only called in on “Black males”. I wonder what the OTHER people in that community called in on. What if most of the calls from EVERYONE were to report “Black males”?

            Like

            • nomatter_nevermind says:

              ‘Ok, from everything I know about this case, that’s just not true.’

              It is true. Zimmerman has made suspicious person calls on whites and Hispanics, but only before he moved to RATL.

              Like

    • John Galt says:

      Crump’s digital recorder records mp3 files, State produces wma files. I think Nelson ordered production of original device, not computer manipulated files.

      Like

      • LetJusticePrevail says:

        How did you verify that the files were presented as WMA’s?

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        • MJW says:

          That’s what GZLegalCase says:

          The following recordings were provided to us as part of the State’s 11th Supplemental Discovery. The recordings were provided to us in .wma files. For the purpose of providing them publicly, they were converted to .wav files, the name of the witness was redacted when necessary, and they were converted to .mp3 files to be posted on this website.

          Like

          • diwataman says:

            Somehow I missed that little description the first time I looked at the site.

            That is just nuts. Those files should be in mp3 format. Why did the State NOT give O’Mara the original files? There’s no excuse for it and it’s as easy as copy-paste-send right from the recorder as an attachment to an email to O’Mara. What the hell is going on?

            If the State revived the recorder with wma files on it instead of mp3 files that means someone replaced the mp3 files with wma files on the recorder itself.

            Like

    • ottawa925 says:

      In addition to replying to the above, I am repeating my post here:

      I missed the part somewhere either here or at CTH that the original recording is no longer on the device Crump used to record W8.

      Dman: “Here’s the bigger question. How did those files that were recorded get back onto the device? The only way that could happen is if someone put them there.

      But the even bigger, bigger question is why would someone replace the original files?”

      If they took the original recording, played it, and had a computer RECORD it THROUGH A MIC, this #1 could explain quality. However to answer WHY someone would do that is to be able to EDIT the recording to one’s satisfaction, then play it and record it using the original recording device thereby getting rid of the original altogether, and replacing it with the edited version.

      This is why they need to get the recording from Matt Gutman. If his doesn’t match up, then there’s a problem. Unfortunately, the defense is moving like a turtle in getting these tapes al beit they have had one arm tied around their backs because of the Court’s lack of support in helping them to expeditiously obtain these items. Has Gutman’s tape been subpoened? If not, why not?

      They are giving these guys too much time to play with the evidence.

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      • jello333 says:

        I said this a couple times in yesterday’s thread, but I’ll repeat it here: I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if MOM and West already have Gutman’s tape. Gutman has to know that he’s in serious trouble, especially after the NBC suit was filed, Serino lawyering up, Crump looking at possible jail time, etc. So to MITIGATE possible damages to himself and ABC, I can imagine Gutman (with ABC’s approval) cooperating with the defense team. And if so, they may have had his tape for some time now… and therefore they KNOW precisely what is, and is NOT on Crump’s tape. In other words, this is all about comparing the two tapes, and using that to help prove a conspiracy.

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        • LetJusticePrevail says:

          And that recording could be the *catalyst* necessary to start the chain reaction necessary break up the “core” conspirators…

          Like

  1. eastern2western says:

    natalie jackson is one dumb ass lawyer. with the release of the new documents, she some how still complains about the sanford police department for no doing a through investigation because they did not arrest zimmerman immediately that night. god, yeah, jackson, she needs to keep opening her stupid mouth because her accusations are creating enemies from the major witnesses of the whole case which are the sanford cops who saw the whole aftermath of the shooting. the defense basically has everything from eye witnesses to medical personnels to back up zimmerman’s story to go against a person who was not even there that night. Instead of trying to back off of her accusations, she still keeps pushing foward the whole incompetent officer narrative. Brilliant representation, ms jackson, because the police department should sue her ass for slander.

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    • justfactsplz says:

      I want so badly to see her and Crump pay for what they have done. They are pure evil.

      Like

      • libby says:

        Sanford PD sounds like one of the most diverse police organizations in the country

        Like

      • hooson1st says:

        ain’t gonna happen

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        • jello333 says:

          Maybe not, but it won’t be for lack of trying. Because I think that’s the bulk of what MOM and West (with the help of Beasley) have been doing recently: Collecting evidence and setting traps for all the conspirators in this thing. You don’t seriously believe, do you, that once George is exonerated, everyone’s just gonna say “Whew, glad that’s over with. Let’s just let bygones be bygones now”. Nope. I really think there’s people out for vengeance now… AS THEY SHOULD BE. Listening to Bobby talk (and I presume he’s not speaking in a vacuum), they are VERY much looking for certain people and organizations to pay for what they’ve done, and they also know that that would set some precedents to keep this from ever happening to anyone else in the future.

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    • howie says:

      He was handcuffed and transported. He was not free to go. That sounds like an arrest to me. later he was released when the police determined they had no probable cause to hold him at that time. The video itself clearly shows a person under arrest.

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      • ejarra says:

        …and he was read his Miranda Rights and he signed that he received them. He was arrested.

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        • tara says:

          There ya go. But the facts don’t matter to the idiots, especially the idiots in charge of the PR campaign.

          Like

          • tara says:

            I love how Crump, Jackson, and the rest of Team Skittles are preying on the stupidity of their fellow blacks. They’re no better than the scammer pastors who accept donations and then run off to buy expensive cars, homes, and jewelry.

            Like

        • howie says:

          The correct thing to say would be they wanted him charged with a crime not arrested.

          Like

      • JB from SoCal says:

        “Sounds like an arrest to me.”

        I totally agree, Howie, and wonder what %-age of the American populace realizes or knows this? I would guess single digits. Sad commentary for sure.

        Like

      • lovemygirl says:

        I was told once that to figure out if you are under arrest, ask if you are free to go. Handcuffs and Miranda are a clear indication he was arrested.

        Like

      • libby says:

        He was also told to get his butt back to that police station as early as possible the next day (so he could be held for further questioning for hours and hour and hours). At the end of the 2nd day of incessant questions, he was told to get his butt back theri the next day for further questioning.
        Each time he was told if he didnt show up for questioning he would be hunted down like a dog until they found him

        Like

    • jello333 says:

      Yeah, we keep talking about who all George is gonna sue. But he’s not the ONLY one who’s gonna be suing people. Idiots like Crump and NatJack are gonna be getting hit from all directions… not to mention looking at disbarment, and possible jail time.

      And about arresting George the night of the shooting?… How is it that even lawyers like Natty and Crump don’t seem to know the law? The law specifically says that if you claim self-defense, and if the evidence doesn’t contradict you, then BY LAW you can NOT be arrested.

      Like

      • jello333 says:

        Correction… I should have said the law states that he couldn’t be “charged”. Because yeah, whether George was just “detained” or technically “arrested”, either way he was NOT free to just walk out of there anytime he wanted.

        Like

  2. rumpole2 says:

    Daily Daft Posts From Justarse Quest

    Today a “touching” exchange between JQ posters as a “senior member” welcomes a neophyte to the sewer. The welcome includes a one paragraph summary of what the GZ case is all about. Naturally it parrots (cockatoos) The Scheme Team narrative.

    The case in a Traybot “Nutshell” at Random Topics

    http://randomtopics.org/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=584&p=19690#p19690

    Like

    • diwataman says:

      Not quite, they missed a huge part of the narrative; race.

      Like

      • rumpole2 says:

        Yes.
        No denying that is there in the Scheme Team Narrative.

        Like

      • eastern2western says:

        I am actually sick and tired of the race part. the kid was in a crime invested community at night time walking around and doing nothing.

        Like

        • libby says:

          The kid was in one of the most ethnically diverse cities in the entire world with an equally diverse police department that was representative of the ethnic makeup of the community they served. Yeah, the race angle is very disapointing considering how hard this country has fought for making integration of all possible where this kind of ethnic mixing to this extent has never beforfe occurred

          Like

      • howie says:

        They omit any facts that don’t fit their narrative. A fatal mistake in a legal case.

        Like

        • rumpole2 says:

          They also invent facts in the form of speculation… “what if……..”
          We all do that, it’s part of discussion, but the “what if…….” does not then become a fact.
          There is no evidence or witnesses to support any of their speculation. The State has NOTHING they can state in an opening statement as fact that differs from what GZ has outlined.

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          • rumpole2 says:

            God…. I HATE the inability to edit typos :(
            peculation = speculation

            ————–

            :) Admin

            Like

          • howie says:

            They do not apply actual facts of the case to the “elements” of the law. For murder 2 certain elements in the law must be proven by the state. One is Mens Rea. Merely being wary of a prowler on your property does not cut it. T-con exhibited all the characteristics of a person acting in a stealthy manner. Another fact is that Zimmerman was expecting the police to arrive at any moment. He had told them to meet up at his car and call him.

            Like

            • libby says:

              that’s what’s wrong with all you zimmerbots. you folks worry about actual , not the made up stuff from the persecution and their cadre of jury pool polluters

              Like

              • howie says:

                They seem fixated don’t they. Desperately trying to fit square pegs in round holes. They concentrate on totally irrelevant notions. As far as I can tell Zimmerman did absolutely nothing wrong prior to the attack by T-con. The police confirm the attack. The evidence confirms the attack. That is the starting point. Other than the police calls and Zimmerman’s statements there is no evidence here. The state also is fixated on the events prior to the attack by the perp. T-con. According to the police T-con was in the process of committing a felony when the homicide occurred. I still don’t see how the state can get this to a trial.

                Like

        • libby says:

          follow the MONEY. this is about the civil liability-the criminal case is a convenient smoke screen

          Like

          • howie says:

            It will be interesting to see if the CRS had any contact with Judge Lester. If the CRS in any way was communicating with the trial court itself it will be hell to pay. I think. I keep going back to Lester’s statement in open court. “We are supposed to be tamping this down.” No…a trial court is supposed to be an impartial trier of the facts and seek the truth. Not tamp things down.

            Like

    • TandCrumpettes says:

      There’s one thing in there I haven’t seen before – hollow point bullets.

      Maybe I’m just slow and missed it. I don’t care if hollow points were used, I only care if that’s a fact. I Googled the phrase several ways, and only got blogs and forum comments, things like that. So far I have found no credible source. What gives?

      Anyway, its interesting to note that when I typed the phrase, “Trayvon Martin shot with ho…” Google immediately suggested, “Trayvon Martin shot how many times?” *sigh* If you don’t know that by now, you might as well give up.

      Like

      • libby says:

        Just another made up fact of the trayvonites. i think i first saw this lie about two months ago (maybe threee)

        Like

      • LetJusticePrevail says:

        You can identify the ammunition by looking at the ballistics reports in the July discovery. The bullet type is specified by the code JHP which stands for jacketed hollow point.

        Like

        • nomatter_nevermind says:

          Why would a hollow point round be jacketed? Doesn’t that defeat the purpose?

          Serino asked Zimmerman what kind of ammo he used. He said ‘I think it was hollow point.’ It was on 2/27, the short post-midnight interview on the night of the shooting.

          Like

          • LetJusticePrevail says:

            That was a good question, and the design features seem to work against each other, so I “googled” this explanation:

            ” Jacketed hollow points (JHPs) or plated hollow points are covered in a coating of harder metal (usually a copper alloy or copper coated steel) to increase bullet strength and to prevent fouling the barrel with lead stripped from the bullet.”

            That STILL allows for expansion of the projectile on impact, decreasing the penetration (preventing injuries to 3rd parties standing behind the target) and maximizing the impact to the intended target and causing greater tissue damage. All that, and it is better for the firearm!

            Like

      • justfactsplz says:

        He was using hollow point bullets.

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      • eastern2western says:

        most civilian bullets are hollow type because it reduces penetration and weight.

        Like

        • tara says:

          And I just read on wikipedia that they are also safer due to a “reduced risk of bystanders being hit by over-penetrating or ricocheted bullets

          Like

      • lovemygirl says:

        Hollow points are the most common choice for self defence. They act like it’s something evil.

        Like

    • Bill D says:

      Thanks for the link, that’s the first time I heard that recording. Interesting that they chose to interview here when she was stuck at the bottom of a mine shaft. All joking aside, the whole interview has all the hallmarks of a liar. The long pauses, the inability to correctly address or completely address the entire question. If I listened to this, my conclusion would be that she knows next to nothing about what happened that day nor did she even know Trayvon Martin that well.

      Like

  3. ejarra says:

    One of Georgie’s quotes from the NEN call goes something like this: “I think that there is some wrong with him, like he’s on drugs or something.”

    It would seem to me that Georgie was correct in that assumption. He probably was high that night AND there had to have been something wrong with him. There was NO reason for a rationally thinking man to assault someone the way he did that night.

    Like

    • tara says:

      We know for a fact that Trademark was high from pot, so GZ was definitely correct with that part of his assessment.

      Like

      • ftsk420 says:

        We know he had marijuana in his system but we don’t know if he was high.

        Like

        • eastern2western says:

          Normally speaking, a person does not get violent while high. He would be lethargic, lazy, paranoid and hungry, but getting super violent is very rare.

          Like

          • ftsk420 says:

            I smoke I have for years and it’s never made me or anyone I know violent now synthetic marijuana has that affect but we don’t know if they even checked Trayvon for that.

            Like

            • eastern2western says:

              It is very possible that trayvon was on some thing else other than marijuana or even lean. marijuana actually makes a person less violent because of the increase level of paranoia and fear. if codeine is the major ingredient of lean, then the major effect should be drowsiness. the drugs that make people go violent are usually the anti-inhibitory drugs that simple remove people’s fear of punishment, such as pcp or cocaine.

              Like

              • eastern2western says:

                despite its name of getting a high on marijuana, it is more like a very lathargic feeling of relaxation. Now, the artificial ones could simply have different effects that we do not know of.

                Like

              • ftsk420 says:

                maybe it’s just me but anytime I have taken codeine I felt it made me a little aggressive.

                Like

              • tara says:

                In general, after using marijuana a person experiences a sedating effect, which makes the drug less likely to cause violence in users than other substances such as alcohol and stimulants (e.g., amphetamines and cocaine).

                However, sometimes when marijuana is used it can cause fear, anxiety, panic or paranoia, which can result in an aggressive outburst. For most people, however, once the effects of the drug wear off, their behaviour gradually improves.

                Studies show that violence can occur more often among people who use marijuana regularly, rather than those who use it occasionally or not at all. It is unclear why this is the case, but it may be because people with violent tendencies can also have a range of other psychosocial problems and are therefore more likely to use marijuana. marijuana is also part of the illegal drug market, which may increase the chances of violence occurring in some social interactions.

                Research also shows that marijuana users who commit violent acts usually have a history of violence before they start using the drug.

                In addition, when people are withdrawing from marijuana they can be irritable, which can lead to abusive or aggressive behaviour.

                http://adai.washington.edu/marijuana/factsheets/aggression.htm

                Like

                • ftsk420 says:

                  Well I have never seen anyone become violent or aggressive from using marijuana.

                  Like

                  • libby says:

                    withdrawal from and using are two different scenarios.
                    .
                    in one case one may be aggressive under the influence of the drug and in the other case, the use of the drug has caused you to be aggressive, but it is the lack of the drug that causes the aggressive behavior.
                    .
                    (though I still sugest that withdrawal from opiates or from the dxm (the stuff with the pcp like high) would leave a person with far more violent tendencies than the weed.
                    .

                    Like

              • libby says:

                nobody ever gets violent off of opiates?
                codiene is an opiate derivative.

                Like

  4. ejarra says:

    I now understand why Mr. Martin was talking to DD1 for over six hours that day.

    If she was using that same phone that she used in the Crump interview, Mr. Martin must have said, “Wha U say?” thousands of times; prolonging the conversation.

    Like

  5. hooson1st says:

    I noticed in the inventory list that TM had some $40 plus change in his pockets.

    Back at the 711 he pulled out some cash when he made his transactions, Is is possible to determine from the 711 videos what kind of cash came out of his pockets at that time; i.e., did TM accumulate some cash (via a transaction perhaps) between the time he left 711 and the time he ran into GZ?

    Like

    • ejarra says:

      My observations of what happened at the 7-11 is that he palmed some money while standing at the counter. My guess is that it was a couple of bucks to buy a blunt from the 3 stooges. So, because of that, I believe he SPENT money and not received money. Did he spent money on pot at that time or did he already have some on him when he went to the store? Remember he was given up to $100 the day before by Tracy and only $40.25 was found on him (40.15 + .10). I say he spent money on pizza, watermelon drink, Skittles and pot.

      Like

  6. tara says:

    To you legal experts, I have a question:

    If the prosecution doesn’t want to put DeeDee on the stand, can GZ’s defense team call her?

    It’s obvious to me that Crump, with Matt Gutman and probably Ryan Julison too as enablers, blasted the “distraught girlfriend” fairy tale to the public to brainwash potential jurors and possibly the judge as well. Crump knew from day 1 that the information DeeDee provided is of no use and that she invokes about as much sympathy as a clump of dirt would. He knew that he had to make the public connect with her on an emotional level so that they wouldn’t pay attention to the facts but instead unconciously extrapolate her useless statements and uncaring personality into something damaging to the defense. Crump’s prior tactics worked so well for him …. employing years old photos of Trademark, the Skittles and hoodie memes, and the race-baiting clowns (Frederica Wilson was the best, IMO) …… he felt confident that the public could easily be swayed once again. Crump has effectively put DeeDee on the stand but has not allowed the defense to cross-examine. Will the defense get their chance in court, IF it goes that far?

    Like

    • tara says:

      (unconsciously! I hate typos)

      Like

    • eastern2western says:

      dd is the case. without her, there is only sabrina fulton.

      Like

    • John Galt says:

      “It’s obvious to me that Crump, with Matt Gutman and probably Ryan Julison too as enablers, blasted the “distraught girlfriend”

      Yes, Gutman said: “She said, “suddenly Martin was cornered!”

      I did not hear that particular BS on any of the DD recordings.

      Like

    • yankeeintx says:

      Remember the time frame. GZ had not been arrested. Along comes DD (after Benny, Tracy and Sybrina had heard the NEN call), and from her statement they get the information that TM was afraid, he had “lost” the creepy white dude, and then the creepy white dude found him, and pushed him, and then shot him.

      Like

      • tara says:

        Mar 16: GZ’s NEN call is made available to the public
        Mar 18: Tracy Martin and Ben Crump allegedly discover Dee Dee while looking through Trademark’s phone billing records
        Mar 19: Crump interviews DD1
        Mar 20: Crump holds his press conference and presents DD1 to the public.

        Very convenient timing !

        Like

    • MJW says:

      I’m no legal expert, but I think I can answer your question. Yes, they can call her. Keep in mind, though, that neither of the interviews with Crump and BDLR are admissible evidence. They’re inadmissible hearsay. So if the state doesn’t call DeeDee, none of her testimony will come in unless the defense calls her. So the defense would only call her it they think her testimony will help their case. If the defense does call her, they may be allowed to treat her as an adverse witness, which would let them ask leading questions — the “Isn’t it true…” kind of questions that aren’t normally permitted on direct examination.

      Like

  7. tara says:

    I’m sure many of you have noticed that Crump’s interview of DD1 does not contain the statement about Trademark being “right by” Brandy’s apartment as De La Rionda’s interview of DD2 does. Was this just a later elaboration? If so, it was definitely a mistake on DD2′s part because she establishes that Trademark backtracked to meet up with GZ at the T in the sidewalk. Or did DD1 also state this information but it’s missing from Crump’s delivered recording to GZ’s defense team? I find it very odd that Part 2 begins with DD1 already speaking, so some portion of what she said is missing. Did she mention Trademark’s location and Crump edited it out because he knew it would be problematic?

    Like

    • tara says:

      I’m sorry, I meant Part 3, not Part 2.

      Like

    • hooson1st says:

      Among the many problems w/DeeDee as a witness is that even before she was steered toCrump and Co., she very likely had her memory (of the events of that night) contaminated by facts, speculations, and outright lies that she heard and read subsequent to that evening, that is, before Crump and whomever questioned her.

      Crump’s questioning of her in this audio release is akin to a bull thrashing about in a china shop. From what has been released to the public so far, Crump seems to have made no effort to test whatever DeeDee was recounting, and was focused on getting her to confirm/conform to his desired narrative.

      A competent investigator will not lead his/her witness, and proceeds cautiously knowing full well that many initial recountings of events are incomplete. The witness temporarily forgets some salient details, only to remember some of those additional details after the interview is over. Subsequent interviews may elicit further salient and accurate details. This is another reason why it is most desirable to have the same investigative team in the investigation from beginning to end.

      Like

      • tara says:

        She was absolutely contaminated. She mentioned that Trademark was profiled because he wore a hoodie. And if I understand her correctly, she also stated that it was a racial incident. I guess she didn’t refer to him as a “chile” because it would have looked bad for a 16 or 18 year old girl to be dating a child.

        Like

    • John Galt says:

      “I find it very odd that Part 2 begins with DD1 already speaking, so some portion of what she said is missing.”

      I noted that also. Obstruction of justice, tampering with evidence? Why did the State produce computer manipulated wma files instead of the original mp3 files?

      Like

      • ejarra says:

        “Why did the State produce computer manipulated wma files instead of the original mp3 files?”

        So John, “You want that, too?”

        Couldn’t resist…

        Like

      • eastern2western says:

        I believe the evidence document states that the cd which is provided is recorded from the digital recorder. It is very much possible that there are more to come, but o’mara needs more time to upload everything.

        Like

  8. Sha says:

    The Florida Times had a article on GZ and it had a section in it that said the two major changes to Serinos statements where 1. The Change to the charges. ( from Murder in the 2nd degree to manslaughter ) 2. A strongly worded section codeming GZ for his actions. ( Which stated The encounter between GZ and TM was ultimately avoidable by GZ if he had remained in his vechicle.)

    Where I have a problem with Serino codeming him of his action …. is because I would like to know if Serino was aware of what the dispatcher had said to GZ before he wrote that statement . Why would a person who didn’t even wont to speak to someone who was acting wierd….. all of a sudden wont to just get out of his vechicle and see where he went unless he thought that is what he was being ask to do when the NEN operator keep saying let me know what he does next . People can say what they wont ,but the way a person act’s when you pass them or they are around you is how you will react to that person. ( such as.. if they act dangerous you stay away , if they act kind you speak etc… etc. If GZ was avoiding a confrontation while in his vechicle why in the world would he go looking for one out side of it.

    Like

    • howie says:

      +1 He was asked to. If the perp/prowler had run around the corner he had to get out.

      Like

    • John Galt says:

      “Where I have a problem with Serino”

      is the fact that he is either grossly incompetent or else intentionally avoided attempting to correlate the facts with the elements of manslaughter or 2nd degree murder, as set forth in the statutes and standard jury instructions. Examples of this include “could have been avoided” and his prefight handicapping, as if he were evaluating a prospective boxing match instead of a violent assault which had already occurred. Neither of those factors are in any way relevant to a determination of whether or not GZ shot Trayvon in self-defense pursuant to Florida statutes.

      Like

      • Sha says:

        John Galt : I agree !

        Like

      • howie says:

        He knows he shot in self defense and the homicide was justified. He is trying to concoct a manslaughter charge in spite of that. That much is clear. Wolfie did not buy it. Corey was sent in to overcharge and pressure for a plea. The CRS was behind the scene manipulating everything. That is what I think. I hope the defense investigation puts the kibosh on this travesty.

        Like

        • hooson1st says:

          howie:

          I don’t believe that Serino could “know” that GZ fired in self-defense and that homicide was justified.

          Serino knows what GZ said that happened, and he knows that the available evidence, at least at the outset, supports GZ’s statements.

          Based on what Serino knew, the murder charge was not justified.

          Like

        • rumpole2 says:

          None of us “know” for sure that GZ is telling the truth in his statements, except we all make that value judgement (and a jury will too) and it is reasonable to believe GZ… he comes across as telling the truth to me.
          Added to that is the “Voice Stress Test” done at a very stressful time. As far as you can scientifically evaluate things GEORGE WAS TELLING THE TRUTH. Including his assertion that he was “in fear of his life” I can’t really understand why this farce continues from that point.
          Even those who (for whatever reason) doubt George’s word need an alternative if they are to abandon George’s description of events…. yet there is NO ALTERNATIVE VERSION. NONE of the eyewitness testimony is inconsistent with G’s version… NONE… not even DD.
          Unless there is a “Perry Mason” type witness around there is no alternative version that the prosecution can use to show probable cause, let alone put forward as a State narrative when they open their case at trial.
          The continuation of this Lynch Quest is a farce.

          Like

          • hooson1st says:

            The “Lynch Quest” will continue, at least for a while, because it is now caught up in the wheels of our justice system.

            Like

          • howie says:

            Check with the CRS. I suspect the answers lie there.They were employed to work with elected officials and LEO’s behind the scenes and out of the public eye to “tamp this thing down down.” Charging Zimmerman was part of the “deal.” Of course it is illegal for a CRS agent to speak in public about their activities. If they do so it is a Federal crime. So if called to testify they will all be forced to take the 5th. However I have not been able to find out if it is illegal for others to testify about their contacts with CRS agents.

            Like

          • yankeeintx says:

            When George was told their was a video of the whole incident, he sounded relieved. I think at that point, there was no doubt he was telling the truth. If he had been guilty, he would have panicked at the thought of a video, he didn’t.

            Like

    • LetJusticePrevail says:

      Serino was aware of everything said on the call between George and the “dispatcher”. He played the entire call for George when he questioned him.

      Like

      • Sha says:

        LetJusticePrevail : Then Serino is just full of crap ! He has been doing his job so long that he thinks or should I say (assumes ) everyone would handle a situation the way he would. I have seen this before when people train other people after being on there job for a while…… they assume the new person is suppose to automatically know what they know with out the experience to go with it.

        Like

    • libby says:

      Getting out of the car while perceived to be white is still illegal in most states (get with the program or get some help)

      Like

  9. mung says:

    So the new story from the crazy Trayvonites is that not only did Trayvon not even touch George, but it was a Sanford police officer that beat George up. Forget about the witnesses that saw Trayvon on George beating him.

    Like

  10. eastern2western says:

    Personally, I do not even think dd’s testimony is very helpful to the prosecution’s case. in the first bond hearing, dale gilbrith can not even answer who started the fight or even if zimmerman kept following martin after the 911 operator told him not to, In addition, dale had already stated the 911 tape is the only evidence which proves zimmerman followed trayvon after he got out of the car. If all they have are the 911 tape as an objective evidence, then chief lee was right for not arresting zimmerman due to lack of evidence. Justice for Lee! Justice For Lee! JUSTICE FOR LEE!

    Like

  11. eastern2western says:

    if the prosecution wants to bring up the serino report, then the defense should also bring up the fact that the report states THE SCREAMS ARE FROM ZIMMERMAN.

    Like

    • libby says:

      This is what I enjoy about the treehouse.
      serious discussion of the actual evidence.
      excellent work e2w!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      Like

  12. mung says:

    Got to love it. I had someone on Click Orlando call me racist because I asked Bigboi if she wrote any bad checks recently. I guess they are too stupid to realize that she is not black and it was a reference to her convictions for oh I don’t know writing bad checks.

    Now I have heard a few times that Bigboi was the pit bull that caused George to buy the gun in the first place. Has that ever been proven? If so that explains a lot and would provide a huge motive for the slander case against her.

    Like

  13. tara says:

    I’m listening again to Serino’s interviews with GZ. Available here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/06/21/2860569/zimmerman-told-police-trayvon.html

    The accompanying article states that Serino described Trademark as a “child”. Doesn’t that indicate bias? The article also states that Zimmerman didn’t know the street names of his community. I haven’t gotten far enough in the interviews to hear Serino complain about that, but I do remember in some interview GZ said he was looking for a house number nearest the place where he lost sight of Trademark, not a street name.

    Like

    • tara says:

      By the way, in the second interview Serino tells GZ that he noted “some inconsistencies that don’t amount to much”. But the media reports implied significant glaring errors in GZ’s story. Where did that come from? Maybe I’m not far enough in the interviews yet. I need to see Serino’s written docs too.

      Like

    • tara says:

      In the 3rd interview, GZ states that Trademark looked suspicious because it was raining and Trademark was standing, just looking around, not walking or going anywhere to get out of the rain. That would look suspicious to me too.

      Like

      • tara says:

        Also in interview 3, when playing the NEN call Serino asks GZ what he whispered, and GZ replies “f*cking punks”. Serino repeats the phrase, then admonishes GZ by saying “he wasn’t a f*cking punk”. Apparently at this time Serino was under the impression that Trademark was an innocent candy-bearing child who majored in cheerful and was skipping home to his loving parents. Er, to the apartment of his married father’s mistress’ apartment I mean. While high. And to that apartment because he’d been kicked out of school for the 2nd (or was it 3rd ?) time.

        Like

        • ottawa925 says:

          and why would he admonish GZ when he has no idea what the kid was up to? He doesn’t have ALL the facts but knows the kid isn’t a punk. hmmmm … ok. Look, here’s what is clear to me. ONE OFFICER in this entire case hires BAEZ. Why? Cause that one officer knows what he did was not on the up and up. This ONE officer knows that the defense is gonna put him on the hotseat. His report should be matched against what transpired in all the meetings the cops had where he basically sat with his mouth shut … where he was given every opportunity to speak up, were all the cops were asked about the evidence, etc. and he sat like a potted plant. Not ONE peep out of him when they decided there was nothing to charge GZ with. ONE OFFICER HIRES BAEZ. Think about that.

          Like

          • howie says:

            I suspect all of them have lawyered up.

            Like

          • Sha says:

            ottawa925: It makes me wonder if Serino had something personal against GZ. I wonder if he was friends with or knew anyone connected to the Ware case .

            Like

            • justfactsplz says:

              After the interviews Serino acted like a friend to George. It makes me sick.

              Like

            • tara says:

              Serino gets more gruff and opinionated with each interview. He starts out sounding fairly unbiased but soon vocalizes obvious prejudice. I find “He wasn’t a f*cking punk” most disturbing! This was on Feb 29, just a few days after the shooting. I can understand if Serino felt GZ’s story didn’t quite make sense, it’s the job of the investigator to be skeptical and look for discrepancies, but an investigator should always be objective. Serino knew that Trademark was 17 years old and he must have seen the evidence photos so he knew what Trademark looked like. Serino’s been in law enforcement for 15 years? He’s seen plenty of 17 year olds, he knows that some look and act very much like adults, and some are troubled. Why would he assume Trademark was some innocent kid before knowing anything at all about him? I’m going to listen to those recordings again.

              Like

              • jello333 says:

                I’ve just assumed that most of that stuff was Serino playing the “bad cop” game. Trying to trip George up, etc… like a lot of cops do during interviews. “It’s nothing personal”, as they might say. And I wouldn’t have a real problem with that…. EXCEPT for the fact that then later it was Serino who wanted charges filed. Which makes the stuff he said/did during George’s interviews even more odd.

                Like

            • skeptiktank says:

              I don’t think Serino had anything against George, I think he was just doing his job. Interrogators are supposed to put pressure on suspects to give them a chance to crack, or maybe just say something incriminating. It’s nothing personal. I do, however, think his comment about George staying in his vehicle was out of line. George had no way of knowing what was going to happen if he got out of his vehicle. He obviously thought TM was running away, and that he would never run into him again.

              Like

              • howie says:

                He could not. Due to the pressure cooker he was in. There were various nefarious forces at work. George was and is irrelevant. He is just a citizen being flayed, drawn, and quartered. Much more is in play than a simple justifiable homicide of a gangbanging little thug. Much more.

                Like

              • libtardh8r says:

                Serino’s comment about all of GZ’s calls to 911 being about black males is something I had almost forgotten about. It’s an out-and-out lie…I reviewed the logs of all GZ’s calls to 911 and only a handful of them specified black males. One of the calls was to report his concern for the safety of a black male child playing unsupervised in the street. Serino’s comment also injects race into the case even as he is telling the FBI that he felt that race had nothing to do with the shooting. To me it is this statement that is the smoking gun against Serino, not the “this could have been avoided” comment.

                Like

                • jello333 says:

                  “To me it is this statement that is the smoking gun against Serino”

                  Or maybe more precisely (in my opinion) a smoking gun against those 3 or 4 cops who PRESSURED Serino to lie.

                  Like

                • nomatter_nevermind says:

                  By the time Zimmerman was living at The Retreat at Twin Lakes, he knew better than to call 911 to report suspicious persons.

                  It is true that most of Zimmerman’s non-emergency calls were not reports of suspicious black persons. Most of them were not reports of suspicious persons. After moving to RATL, he didn’t report any suspicious persons until the rash of burglaries began.

                  When you narrow the search as Serino did, to suspicious person calls made while Zimmerman was a resident of RATL, the statement is correct. All of those suspicious persons were black males.

                  Like

                  • Jello333 says:

                    Ok, if that’s the case, then it obviously requires a follow-up question: Of the many other “suspicious person” calls by OTHER residents of the Retreat during that time period, how many of THEM were regarding “black males”? That’s really a rhetorical question, because I don’t think we can find the answer to that. But if we could, I have a funny feeling it wouldn’t be much different from George’s call record.

                    Like

                  • rumpole2 says:

                    “THEY” might then say that proves that ALL the people at the retreat are Raciss… that is their claim anyway.

                    Like

          • justfactsplz says:

            Yep, that speaks volumes.

            Like

            • ottawa925 says:

              justfactsplz …you apparently get what I’m pointing to. Whether or not other officers hired attorneys I do not know. What I’m pointing to is that Serino hired the HIGH PROFILE ATTORNEY that represented Casey Anthony. That’s what I’m pointing to. Not just ANY old damn attorney … but Baez. Why did he need such a high profile and I’m sure .. very expensive attorney? An attorney who the viewing public saw pull every trick in the book. Are we forgetting so fast how Baez bamboozled 12 ppl on a jury? And recently on the Anthony case we learn that someone did not spell a word properly and totally missed a word which would have led them to find evidence on Casey’s computer. Investigators “made the search for “fool-proof suffication,” misspelling “suffocation”.

              http://www.google.com/search?q=investigators+misspelled+Casey+Anthony+case&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7ADFA_en

              Then you hear/read that Baez was ready and waiting if they had brought that up in Court. Why was he ready and waiting? Are you not supposed under discovery to provide via the words “any and all”? Baez withheld evidence.

              Yes, I said a long time ago on this form that the hiring of Baez is VERY telling. Telling of someone who feels there is a chance they will be exposed and get their you know whats caught in the wringer.

              Like

              • justfactsplz says:

                Serino’s choice of Jose says a lot. I think he played both sides of the issue and it caught up with him and he is covering his behind. I do not trust him and I have my reasons.

                Like

        • John Galt says:

          Funny if MOM or West make Serino agree in his deposition that Trayvon was, in fact, a punk.

          Like

    • nettles18 says:

      GZ said he was frustrated b/c he couldn’t remember the name of the street his truck was parked on. That hasn’t been refuted. He never says Twin Tree Lane to the dispatcher. After getting out of the truck to keep an eye on Trayvon who rounded the corner and went south on the sidewalk, GZ talks to Sean for another 2 full minutes. Then he says he kept walking straight through to the next street which he knew was his street, Retreat View Circle to get a house number. It would have also given him a great vantage point if Trayvon had of come out from between the houses onto RVC and been able to tell the dispatcher which way the youth went.

      He could see the house numbers on Twin Tree Lane but couldn’t remember the street’s name. On the other street, he knew the name but didn’t know what number house would be closest to direct police to the T intersection sidewalk that separated the backyards of both streets.

      Like

      • jello333 says:

        Exactly. These people who make a big deal about him not remembering the street name make no sense. They go on and on about how George must have been lying. Well… WHY? Why on earth would he be lying to the dispatcher? Was George just PRETENDING to not know the street name and addresses? Seriously… that would make NO sense.

        Like

        • justfactsplz says:

          From the very beginning George said he was looking for the address. When I first was told what happened to George, I was told that Trayvon attacked out of nowhere while George was looking for the address.

          Like

      • Sha says:

        nettles18: How do you know the NEN operators name was Sean ?

        Like

  14. Sherpa1 says:

    I don’t think the ME has but as his autopsy finding of “body hair of adult-male-pattern distribution” flies in the face of the “Child” scenario, no doubt he should.

    Like

  15. Sherpa1 says:

    Oops, make that “hair of adult-male-pattern distribution”, post puberty not of the Child/Kid scenario .

    Like

  16. diwataman says:

    From the Motion To Compel Production Of Evidence From Third-party on page 3 and footnote 7.

    http://184.172.211.159/~gzdocs/documents/1112/motion_to_compel.pdf

    It says that the Crump recording has obviously been edited because the recording is only half the length of the phone call between him and W8.

    How would they know how long the phone call was? The only way I could think is from DeeDee’s cell phone records, which from the recording sounds like that’s what they are calling her on since they asked Crump if she could use a land line.

    The original release of the recording is 14:32, the new release is 15:02 so all we got was 30 seconds more.

    Where’s the other apx. 15 minutes? Did Crump not give it to the State? Did the State not give it to O’Mara? Did O’Mara not give it to us?

    Like

    • jello333 says:

      Or another possibility (and you know what I’m about to say, don’t you? ;) ) …

      MOM and West know how long the whole call was because they already have a recording of the full thing… Gutman’s tape.

      Like

    • John Galt says:

      “It says that the Crump recording has obviously been edited because the recording is only half the length of the phone call between him and W8.”

      Ooops. Should have used anonymous prepaid phones.

      Like

  17. tara says:

    I want to repeat something that has been written on TCTH at least twice but is easily lost among all of the other facts …. on a Nancy Grace show Trademark’s uncle Ronquavis Fulton stated that he met DeeDee at the funeral, but Crump and DD1 (and DD2?) claim that she didn’t go to the funeral.

    GRACE: Ronquavis Fulton, I want to talk to you about Trayvon Martin. Do you know this girl he was talking to on the phone that evening?
    FULTON: No, but I met her at the funeral.
    GRACE: You did?
    FULTON: Yes.
    GRACE: Did you have any opportunity to talk to her?
    FULTON: No, not personally. Just a meet — just a formal meeting.

    http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1204/02/ng.01.html

    This is the same show in which Darryl Parks gets the story wrong and states that DeeDee went to the hospital immediately after Trademark was killed, not at the time of the funeral:

    PARKS: Well, number one, this young lady was very traumatized from this event. She in fact had to go to the hospital immediately after his death because it was such a traumatic event for her.

    Like

    • tara says:

      Wait a minute! Surely someone has noted this before and I’m behind ………..

      Ronquavis Fulton met DeeDee at Trademark’s funeral on March 3 and there was some kind of “formal meeting”. But Crump claims that he and Tracy Martin discovered Dee Dee on March 18. Am I missing something or is this an obscenely massive discrepancy????

      Like

      • diwataman says:

        Yes people have noticed these things before, they tend to come up in comments sections of the GZ open threads or basically any post regarding George. There of course has been no new information regarding this and this recent release of the recording doesn’t help much in that regard. I don’t see how what you particularly mention here counts for a discrepancy. Just because Trayvon’s cousin supposedly met her at the funeral does not necessarily mean that info got to Crump or Tracy prior to the 18th.

        Like

        • mung says:

          It all depends on which DeeDee and which time continuum you are in. Damn Tardis has the time streams all mixed up and Crump can’t be held accountable for that can he? I am the DeeDarlik.

          Like

        • nomatter_nevermind says:

          The interviewer didn’t ask Ronquavis any follow-up questions. He didn’t explain how he knew this was the person on the phone with Martin on 2/26, or when he found out. That’s how he described her, not as Trayvon’s gf or anything else. (Paraphrasing. I haven’t listened to the interview lately.)

          Like

          • nomatter_nevermind says:

            I think I should have said that was how the interviewer described her, in the question Ronquavis was answering when he said he met her at the funeral.

            Like

        • tara says:

          During Crump’s press conference he stated that DeeDee was so “sick” she was unable to attend Trademark’s wake (Fri Mar 2), but he doesn’t mention the funeral (Sat Mar 3). I’m unable to access Crump’s interview with DD1 right now so I can’t verify whether or not DD1 mentioned the wake or the funeral specifically, I only remember that she mentioned her mother taking her to the hospital “at two-something”. But BDLR questioned DD2 about the wake and funeral, and she indicated that she didn’t go to either one:

          BDLR: Were you able to go to the funeral or to the wake?
          Dee Dee: I was goin’ to go, but…
          BDLR: OK, what happened?
          Dee Dee: I didn’ feel good.
          BDLR: OK, did you end up going to the hospital or somewhere?
          Dee Dee: Mmmm…Yeah, I had high blood pressure.

          http://statelymcdanielmanor.wordpress.com/2012/06/13/the-trayvon-martin-case-update-11-the-dee-dee-interview-kaboom

          Even if we’re extremely generous and we consider that DeeDee was confused due to being so distraught :) and she skipped the wake but went to the funeral, are we expected to believe that DeeDee showed up at the funeral and had a “formal meeting” with one or more of Trademark’s relatives but she never told any of them that she’d been on the phone with Trademark the evening he was killed? Tracy Martin was present at the funeral, wasn’t he? If Ronquavis met DeeDee and there was a “formal meeting”, are we expected to believe that Tracy Martin wasn’t part of that meeting? And considering that DeeDee was Trademark’s “girlfriend”, are we expected to believe that none of the family members thought to ask her if she’d spoken to Trademark that day?

          In DD2′s interview with BDLR she stated that Trademark was being followed by someone, that he was afraid, that she urged him to run, that she heard Trademark get pushed, and that she heard him say “get off get off” just before their call ended. She also stated that she attempted to call him back 2 or 3 times. It appears she was concerned for his welfare, so are we expected to believe that she convey any of this info to Trademark’s family members during the “formal meeting” at the funeral?

          Tracy Martin had been working with Crump since Feb 29, but the official story is that he didn’t tell Crump about DeeDee until Sun Mar 18, when Tracy was reviewing the phone bill.

          Interesting note: During an NPR interview on Mar 29, Crump refers to DeeDee as Trademark’s “friend”, not his “girlfriend”. I wonder when he changed his mind about their relationship. http://www.npr.org/2012/03/29/149614173/trayvon-martins-family-boosts-public-profile

          Like

          • jello333 says:

            All of that is worth digging into, but the “formal” part, I’m not so sure about. I think the guy might have meant to say INformal meeting. He wasn’t able to talk to her personally… he just met her… an “informal meeting”. I may be wrong, but I think that makes more sense…. basically that he just misspoke.

            Like

          • howie says:

            She or the other DD has stated it was because she could not Pee. Now. High blood pressure does not cause a person to be unable to Pee.

            Like

            • eastern2western says:

              inflammed prostate could cause urinary problems, but she does not have one. in the bernie interview, she said it was high blood pressure, which is really rare in a woman of 18 or 16 years old unless she is severely obese. In another video, natalie jackson claimed it was emotional stress of hearing her best friend’s death caused her to go to the hospital. From what I heared so far, she did not showed any emotions during both interviews which is very rare for a women of her age unless she had many friends who died of homicide that she became immune to it.

              Like

            • eastern2western says:

              another possibility is uti which is a norm for a female of her age.

              Like

            • justfactsplz says:

              Not being able to pee could be from drug use. High blood pressure could be from telling lies.

              Like

  18. eastern2western says:

    while this is a really small detail, but lack of any emotions from dd during both interviews is relatively odd for most women. women are usually much more emotional than and especially teenagers. However, it is just really odd that dd just did not seem to be showing any emotions during both interviews. If she was actually a friend of trayvon martin, then should she at least be crying. I listened to the part where crump asked her if she knew she was the last person who spoke to trayvon and I was expecting her to be crying, but her answer seem to be cold or even like yeah I know and lets get this over with. is it just me or did any one else knotice the relationship between dd and trayvon was actually never really close? she claimed that they had known each other since kindergarden, but no one in the martin family knew her before. another thing is she never called the cops after she listened to her best friend was getting attack by this mysterious white man (lets assume that is true) or not even leaving any voice mails on his phone to check to see that he was okay (no record of any voice mail is really odd). to me that is really strange for a person who used to be friends since kindergarden and was playing with each other in their own home. the interviews truly seem really cold and her answers seem to be very anticipatory, like they were rehearsed before. That is just my observation.

    Like

  19. Diwataman, I read your blog about no judge wanting to take responsibility for granting George immunity, but think about this- what would be better for Team Skittles 1) Going to trial where the prosecution makes idiots of all of them or 2) George being granted immunity? Keep in mind if George is granted immunity they will be able continue the narrative and Trayvon becomes a martyr for their “cause”. That would be worth a fortune for the race hustlers. Worst case scenario for them is if George was convicted.

    Like

    • diwataman says:

      The narrative is already embedded in the hearts and minds of America and the Scheme Team will continue the narrative till the day they die. Nothing will change that. They have already made Trayvon a martyr for their “cause”. Nothing will change that either. It has already become a money-maker for the race hustlers and Crump has advanced his black leadership status quite handily with this case as it is. Sure if George is granted immunity he can’t be sued but they will sue other entities, they already have.

      Like

  20. ottawa925 says:

    Sorry folks, but since the prosecution is building a major portion of their case around DD, and since MOM/West now have the tapes, they need to get their butts in gear and get this girl in for a nice long deposition. Her MOTHER too. I’ve said this before.

    Like

    • howie says:

      The most important motion is the subpoena for CRS records. It may be what runs them off and why the hearing was cancelled.

      Like

    • tara says:

      Will the depositions be made public?

      Like

      • John Galt says:

        BDLR said in a hearing that he thought they were private, but I can’t find any rule or court order to that effect. In other jurisdictions, confidentiality is frequently determined by court order. Cindy Anthony’s video depo is on youtube.

        I would like to see a video depo of Crump on youtube.

        Like

    • justfactsplz says:

      Dee Dee could never get through a deposition without someone to coach her on what to say.

      Like

  21. tara says:

    Just saw an article I hadn’t seen before. Dated Mar 26 on the St. Louis American web site. http://www.stlamerican.com/news/local_news/article_2955e1e2-7753-11e1-a23a-001871e3ce6c.html

    A few things piqued my interest …

    Trayvon was stalked by George Zimmerman, a non-Black neighborhood watch captain armed with a 9 millimeter handgun and a head full of stereotypes about African-American males.

    At one point, Zimmerman got out of his SUV, confronted Trayvon and fatally shot him in the chest.

    Tracy Martin was unaware that his honor roll son, who was visiting from Miami, had been killed around 7 p.m. that Sunday.

    Lawsuit-worthy?

    Remember how Tracy and Brandy claim that they returned to the community that evening but even though Trademark wasn’t home they all went to bed? And the next morning Tracy called Trademark’s cousin, then “juvenile justice”, and then the Sanford police dept? The article quotes Tracy: “I told them we were supposed to be leaving that morning when we woke up.

    So that’s why Tracy finally made an effort to locate Trademark, because Tracy was supposed to take Trademark back to Miami. (I’ve always thought that Tracy and Brandy didn’t return to the community until that morning, otherwise they would have noticed police activity, yellow tape, neighbors milling about, etc.) If they hadn’t planned to return to Miami that day, I wonder how long Trademark would have been stored in a cooler before he was ID’d. And I wonder if Sybrina skipped the funeral because was inconsolably angry with Tracy for leaving Trademark on his own that evening and for not finding out until 12+ hours later that their son was dead.

    Like

  22. howie says:

    Drop charges v. Shellie. Weasel a plea from George to something and sentence to time served and and withhold adjudication. Ahh dunno Methinks something is up.

    Like

    • jello333 says:

      Not a chance. George will not plead to anything… not even jaywalking!

      Like

      • eastern2western says:

        may be getting out of a car, but there is no punishment against that.

        Like

      • justfactsplz says:

        You are right, George would never plea. He and his family have faith in the justice system. Like his mother said, “in America, we believe in justice”. George has not endured all of this pain and agony to end up taking a plea.

        Like

    • rumpole2 says:

      Prepare for the worst.. but hope for the best.

      Like

    • eastern2western says:

      actually, the 92 riot affected a very small area of la down town and the most damages were done to the poor neighborhoods. rich people, black, white, yellow, would not even go out and cause property damages because they have too much to lose.

      Like

    • howie says:

      I agree it would be a waste of time. This will be won pre-trial. Not with an SYG hearing. Just my feeling about it.

      Like

    • tara says:

      My hope is that Nelson is as sick of the BS as we are and she’s not afraid to follow the law.

      Like

    • dmoseylou says:

      I disagree 100% with DMan. IF this case ever even goes to the SYG hearing, it will be b/c that is the decision of MOM / WEST. The Defense is now on the Offense. I believe that they are now very actively acquiring Factual evidence to destroy the Scheming Scammers and all those who have assisted them in their Lies—”false narrative” is too PC for this krap—LIES is the correct terminology. I believe Mom and West have NO intentions whatsoever to simply have GZ exonerated w/ immunity. For GZ and his family to have any hopes of a good, safe, future, the Scheme Team MUST be taken down. They MUST be exposed to the world: their lies, deceit, wit. tampering, obstruction, etc, etc, etc. The list of their criminal activity is mind-blowing.

      From what I have seen and heard of Don West, the man is not about to back off or back down from the blatant injustices done to the GZ family, nor allow those responsible to just walk away to race-bait another day.

      Crump’s 600# elephant and Don West

      http://grabilla.com/03109-6f991cfe-a873-4b20-8a64-27673f87c65a.html

      Like

      • tara says:

        GZ’s defense has already stated publicly that they will seek immunity. But they also state that the immunity hearing will be very much like a trial, except that the defense has the burden of proof for immunity. So I fully expect them to pull out all of the stops, so to speak, just as they would during a trial.

        Like

      • diwataman says:

        Of course a SYG hearing will come about because O’Mara motions for it, I didn’t say otherwise. I’m not sure with what the rest of what you wrote shows how you disagree. The stage is set, just waiting for the final act.

        Like

        • dmoseylou says:

          I do not believe this case will go to trial. I fully expect a decision from Nelson at the SYG hearing granting GZ immunity. She can not “bump” it up to a jury trial. That would be professional suicide for her to exhibit such incompetent decision-making at the SYG hearing.

          Like

          • diwataman says:

            professional suicide? Sort of like Corey?

            Like

            • dmoseylou says:

              Exactly like Corey-Nifong. :D :D
              I greatly respect your work and talent, Diwataman. We simply differ on this subject. That is one of the many great aspects of the Tree—freedom to express opposing views, with links and facts to represent each side of debate. Without fear of being ridiculed or made to feel like idiots.

              Like

              • diwataman says:

                It’s okay to disagree. But Corey has not committed professional suicide, that was really my point there. If you haven’t noticed nothing has happened to her. She will more than likely run unopposed again and keep her job. And if you think Bondi or Scott or some U.S. Attorney under this administration will do anything about it, well, then I just don’t know what to say.

                Like

              • jello333 says:

                DMan is great. He and others just lean a little toward the pessimistic side, while others of us lean more toward the optimistic side. I think that’s a GOOD thing… we sorta balance each other out. Not too high, not too low.

                Like

                • justfactsplz says:

                  And Goldilocks said, “Just right”. It is a good thing.

                  Like

                  • justfactsplz says:

                    Actually the bear said that but I like to change things up a bit.

                    Like

                  • rumpole2 says:

                    Then there is Pinocchio

                    Like

                  • justfactsplz says:

                    I love it. The nose sure fits him.

                    Like

                  • jordan2222 says:

                    justfactsplz

                    Have you ever read all of the comments here, particularly those in regards to the phone records that include the time “stamp” of each call between DeeDee and Martin?

                    I know that you do not believe they talked during the final minutes before the altercation, but where did these phone records come from? They do not appear to be something that Crump could simply create.

                    http://statelymcdanielmanor.wordpress.com/2012/06/13/the-trayvon-martin-case-update-11-the-dee-dee-interview-kaboomly

                    Like

                  • justfactsplz says:

                    I always read all of the comments. I would put nothing past Crump. Just look what he did with the Dee Dee tapes. There are things that I learned early on that I am cautious to reveal. There is a reason the heart stickered phone was not listed in Trayvon’s belongings. I believe his phone was in Miami as a punishment. His friends may have not known that and called him. Maybe
                    Sybrina or Jhavaris answered the calls. Pings are crucial to prove the location of the phone. Or perhaps Tracy got a hold of the phone and took it back to Miami with him. I totally believe that it was in Miami when investigating it started. Why did Tracy not want to give the pin number? I know people think I am crazy or delusional about the phones and I will settle for that for now. There are reasons I believe what I do.

                    Like

                  • jordan2222 says:

                    I do not think you are crazy or delusional by any means. I am only trying to make sense of this. I, too, know something about that phone that I cannot share yet but it’s not quite the same as what you have said/implied. Are you saying that there are two separate phones?

                    Like

                  • justfactsplz says:

                    Yes, that is what I believe to be the case.

                    Like

          • dmoseylou says:

            AND, as Howie stated up-thread, the DCA and Supreme Court are next in line, before a jury trial, should Nelson rule in favor of the State at SYG.

            Like

      • justfactsplz says:

        I agree with you one hundred percent. West is going for the juglar. Immunity is not enough.

        Like

      • jello333 says:

        Yes!!! As everyone here knows by now, I agree with that completely. Including this:

        “For GZ and his family to have any hopes of a good, safe, future, the Scheme Team MUST be taken down. They MUST be exposed to the world…”

        Exactly right. And I have no doubt that West, and yes even MOM, believes that too.

        Like

  23. ottawa925 says:

    The dogpound has been all over the suit filed by the protection agency v. O’Mara’s firm and GZ and Shelly. Copy of the complaint is over there. From that they gleem that GZ has broken bond by living(?) in Orange County. That the bond only allows for him to be in Seminole County. IDK can’t make heads or tails of their claims.

    Like

  24. maggiemoowho says:

    Here is a video of a few of TM’s friends fighting. Must have just happened within the past day. Watch the one girl pound the other girls head into the ground. This video does contain profanities.

    http://telly.com/TheSoleManSB#!02L9JY

    Like

  25. pet says:

    Full Tox forensics.

    Full cell phone forensics.

    Full DD disclosure.

    Full TM school records.

    done.

    waiting for the inevitable………………………………….

    Like

  26. jordan2222 says:

    If I recall, people used their “assault” rifles during the LA riots. Start at 4:10

    Like

  27. jordan2222 says:

    I would give a nickel.. maybe even a dime.. to hear the depos of Crump and DeeDee but somehow I have a sense that there is a lot of legal maneuvering going on to prevent both of them from happening.

    Like

    • eastern2western says:

      not possible since crump is the first handler of the most pivotal witness of the whole case. Thus, both of them must testify or the prosecution has no one else but sabrina fulton.

      Like

      • John Galt says:

        I think Sybrina has her own problems. Why was Crump thanking God for all she and Tracy had done to arrange for the DD telephone interview? Why did Sybrina go outside to talk to DD when she told FDLE that they did not discuss the substance of DD’s testimony? Why was DD interviewed in Sybrina’s house? DD’s mother wanted to keep DD’s identity private. Who made the deal to lie about DD being a minor to keep her identity private?

        Like

    • eastern2western says:

      another thing that will happen is that tracy martin will have to testify that he did not leaked important information to dd because he was the first one who made contact with dd.

      Like

    • jello333 says:

      That’s exactly what I suspect is going on. More than that, even… but that’s part of it. I just don’t believe the State wants this to go on much longer, any more than the defense does. I don’t even think the State wants it to get as far as the immunity hearing.

      Like

  28. John Galt says:

    QUESTION: What is the origin of the “Trayvon rushing home to finish watching basketball game” story? Who, when, where, how did that story first appear in the media?

    Like

  29. dmoseylou says:

    “During halftime of the NBA All-Star Game, Martin’s family said he walked to a nearby convenience store” [...]

    http://www.popsspot.com/2012/03/teen-shot-dead-during-nba-all-star-game-killer-still-not-arrested/

    Like

  30. brutalhonesty says:

    http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/police-mother-found-dead-in-trunk-died-of-gunshot-wound/article_bbf97de8-82fc-571b-ab6c-556b54d4e981.html

    well? where are the martins to help? Will the martins put their money where their mouth is and use their foundation to find Ebony Jackson’s killer?
    Will Obama say she could be his daughter? Will Jesse or Al show up to help? How about Ben Crump and Natalie Jackson? Nope, all absent. Why? Because her presumed killer whomever it may be probably is black…..so she isn’t worth their time. Isn’t racism a sick tool? Changefortrayvon.com ask them why they wont help ebony’s family find justice. where is the national media? where is global grind and russel simons making a justice for page and getting 2.25 million likes? where is the outrage?

    Like

  31. brutalhonesty says:

    Finally justice is served for one victim. another obamason going to jail. (note the perp is 18 now and this happened in 2011)
    The victim told police that he was approached by a group of people just after 7 p.m. on Nov. 20, 2011. One asked for a cigarette, but the man said he did not have one. He was then struck in the eye and fell to the ground, where others in the group began hitting him in the head and body while yelling “knockout game.”

    http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/st-louis-teen-pleads-guilty-to-knockout-game-attack/article_e7729a9d-89c3-591f-bd38-a8a7577ef955.html

    Like

  32. Barney says:

    The defense will have a hard time with one thing- The 911 call you hear the last yell for help and then only a split second later the gun is shot. I dont know if its bc of echoes or what but to me that has always struck me as odd bc it seems he wouldve already had the gun out for him to be able to shoot that fast. Try it at home with your hand down by ur side on ur back and play the call and try to motion at the end of the last yell as if drawing a gun or use a real gun if you own. It is virtually impossible. I think the state could harp on this .

    Like

  33. dmoseylou says:

    Let’s have a show of hands: Everyone who believes TM called his dad to beg permission to walk to the 7/11 in the dark and rain.

    “His fateful walk to the convenience store [...] happened only because the teenager pleaded to leave the apartment, said Horton.” (Horton was his previous football coach.)

    http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/30/us/trayvon-martin-profile/

    Like

  34. brutalhonesty says:

    it doesnt get funnier than this
    “A lawyer for Trayvon Martin’s family said she feels someone pressured Serino to change his recommendation”

    http://www.cfnews13.com/content/news/cfnews13/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2013/1/9/george_zimmerman_leg.html

    Uh yeah racist black NOBLE officers in the department were pressuring him, he told the FBI this.

    Like

    • John Galt says:

      “Legal expert Joy Ragan told said that she has scoured over police reports and the indecision from charging investigators will play well for the defense.
      “If we get to a jury, than this is great for the defense because the defense says that law enforcement couldn’t even figure it out. They’re going back and forth, is it manslaughter? Do they have self-defense? What’s going on here? And if law enforcement can’t figure it out, then there is a reasonable doubt,” said Ragan.”

      How does police opinion on the issue of Z’s guilt or innocence constitute admissible evidence?

      http://caselaw.findlaw.com/fl-district-court-of-appeal/1099172.html

      Like

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