12-20 George Zimmerman Case – Open Discussion Thread

Use this thread as an open thread just for Zimmerman Case stuff. A place to just dump, collect, or discuss general information about the Trayvon Martin VS George Zimmerman Case.

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185 Responses to 12-20 George Zimmerman Case – Open Discussion Thread

  1. rumpole2 says:

    George Zimmerman judge denies ‘stand your ground’ in unrelated case
    By Rene Stutzman, Orlando Sentinel
    5:54 p.m. EST, December 19, 2012

    SANFORD – The judge in the George Zimmerman murder case Wednesday rejected the “stand your ground” claim of a Casselberry man in an unrelated case who was arrested for whacking his neighbor in the head with a shovel.

    James Fraleigh, 54, testified last week that he was legally standing his ground when he hit Dylan Wells, 21, during a disagreement Jan. 7 about a fence that separated their homes. Wells suffered a gash to the back of his neck but was not seriously hurt.

    Fraleigh said he swung the shovel after Wells had charged him, head down, and struck him below his waist. He was afraid, Fraleigh testified, that he was about to suffer a serious injury.

    But in a written order signed Wednesday, Circuit Judge Debra S. Nelson described Fraleigh as the aggressor. He was not defending himself, she wrote, and thus was not entitled to immunity.

    Her order made clear that she did not believe Fraleigh’s account.

    The wound on the back of Wells’ neck, she wrote, indicating that Fraleigh whacked the victim as he was walking away — not while the two were in contact.

    She made that conclusion, she wrote, because the shovel handle was about 5-feet long, too long for the close contact blow that the defendant described.
    She’s now heard two and rejected two “stand your ground” claims. The first was earlier this year when she ruled against a homeless man, Kishawn Jones, who fatally shot another man in a dispute over a cheap gun and $20. A jury later acquitted him.

    …more at link

    • TandCrumpettes says:

      A couple of things concern me here.

      A guy gets hit on the back of the neck with shovel. Ouch! But he’s not seriously injured – he must’ve been hit as hard as Santa whacked the psychiatrist with his cane in “Miracle on 34th Street.” So that’s good.

      But Nelson isn’t going to consider that people often hold shovels clumsily, near the middle, when they’re not actively shoveling? People don’t always hold shovels at the end at all times, especially when that’s the only “weapon” you have against a couple of unruly young adults.

      And I would assume this altercation happened on the older man’s own property. I can very easily see Nelson ruling a shovel-armed man entering another’s property over a dispute as THE aggressing act, but she didn’t.

      Instead, she rules that his kicking the fence and hurting a FRIEND is the aggressor. For who? The friend, maybe. Did he really mean to hurt the friend or was he kicking in frustration? At any rate, if kicking the fence is an aggressor, then the FRIEND has the right to DEFEND him/herself, not the other person (unless the friend is just absolutely in serious trouble and needs AID in defense).

      Actually, that’s another thing. Defense vs. Escalation. So your pal just got kicked with fence somehow. What’s to defend about that? There’s a fence between you! Go inside and call the police, or say you’re sorry, there’s no need for violence, and help to fix the fence and plants. Easy as pie.

      You don’t escalate the situation by bumrushing him.

      I would hope, considering the judge’s ruling, that the man was the one who went over to the kids’ house, confronted them with a shovel, yadda yadda. But I believe Nelson would have mentioned that in her ruling rather than this fence-kicking stuff.

      • Liberals USED to be the Optimistic Ones says:

        The man was still ACQUITTED (and the judge still works for the prosecution)

      • John Galt says:

        “But Nelson isn’t going to consider that people often hold shovels clumsily, near the middle, when they’re not actively shoveling? People don’t always hold shovels at the end at all times, especially when that’s the only “weapon” you have against a couple of unruly young adults.”

        Defendant demonstrating how he held the shovel in pic at link below. How could he hit the alleged attacker in the back of the neck unless the attacker was facing away from him?


        • james Fraleigh says:

          This was not a disagreement about a fence, this was a brutal attack by two underage drunks who came to kill me.i deffende myslf was framed by the Police wa attacked by attacker again,case#2 again framed by Police, notice a rcurring problem by Police?
          I had right to Defend myslf i didnt kill or hurt anyone just defused an attack judge did nothave a clue.she wd to rule on evidnce not her speculations that are not fact based.why did she falsify my tstimony in her ruling?

        • james Fraleigh says:

          News paper article dis not print factual testimony about 2 drunk 20yr old ( drinking age 21!) Nor police doing their job.i called police for the vandalising,trespassing and criminal mischief.note cop did not even wlk next door and tell them to stip harassing us the purpose of the fence to keep them out.they testified being in my yard= trespassing with posted sign whee is trespassing charge? Cop said i didnot have right to Defend myslf i never saidiwould take law into my own hands. Lets see i would honestly hit soneone with a shovel with witnesses, doesnt make anuy

    • tara says:

      I’m going to assume that GZ’s notable injuries will be a factor. If the men in the other two cases weren’t injured, it would be somewhat difficult for them to prove that they feared that their lives were in danger. GZ’s head injuries support such a fear.

    • Chip Bennett says:

      I see zero applicability of this case to the Zimmerman case.

      Note that there is actual witness testimony (the police officer who responded to Farleigh’s complaint about the fence prior to the altercation) indicating that Farleigh was in an agitated state, and that he said he would “take matters into his own hands”.

      None of that applies to the Zimmerman case.

      Of note, it appears that Nelson looked at the actual, physical evidence, and made a ruling based on the preponderance. Such a preponderance judgement would consider whether it is reasonable that the shovel was swung with the victim in contact range (head down, below waist), or otherwise (such as while standing erect, and turned away).

      This may have applicability – positive, at that – to the Zimmerman case, since all known physical evidence exonerates Zimmerman.

    • allhail2 says:

      Here’s the deal with Fraleigh. He is the poster child reason behind the 2nd Ammendment. This guy comes across as unhinged, nuts, and clearly on too many meds, not enough meds, or too many neighborhood pharmeceuticals. He is a legitimate threat. As a matter of fact, the Casselberry City Commission is discussing ways to improve security at their meetings…as a direct result of his attendance and behavior. I have spoken to several of their members, and they are very worried about him. While I do not know about the exact details of his case, it would be safe to say that nobody is surprised by his actions, only that it has happend sooner, or was worse.

      An anti gun buddy of mine recently asked why I have guns. The answer was simple, “Because there are complete nuts like Adam Lanza out there running around.” This is a case in point.

      • james Fraleigh says:

        My two cases are parallel to the zimmerman case being self defense and the right to protect myself against drunk /drug influenced attackers in my own yard minding my own business.
        why did the police take no evidence.why has my Attorney done nothing to tepresent me in almost two years? Why am i facing20 yrs in prison as the victim?
        Why can the judge falsify testimony a felony and hold a job?

      • james Fraleigh says:

        Put you contact info so i can sue you for slander! Being attacked by two drunk/drug kids(20yr old under age!) 1,i didnt kick the fense.2,cop lied- he did nothing – documentf and tstimony.3,tstimony two attackers came into my yard admitted.4, cops took no evidnce.5,cops had done nothing in 20 calls and no protection from theif and burglaries by my attacker.6,attacker atacke me again at store he wasd trespassed at.7,the articles in the NEWS ar not fact or accurate arrest two yrs prior policeunlafully arrsted and beat me- cops dont lie me=vi

      • james Fraleigh says:

        I didnt know freedom of speech is a crime, disagreeing with millions of wasted tax dollars is not disruptive.perjuring tetimony by the mayor commission ers and chief of police is a felony.
        Being attacked and the police forgetting basic investigation is pure malaice framed by police.
        Judge falsified my testimony she used law improperly using statute – c-4 instead of cae law

      • jeff says:

        The above response is TOTALLY 100% correct… I checked all the facts out in this case… and Nelson made the CORRECT DECISION…. this Fraleigh, is a hoarder.. he has lived in and has been kicked out threw the courts, of 15 houses in Casselberry. The two 20 year olds were not drunk. And they were not on his property… the one that got hit with the shovel. Was on the concrete city sidewalk. When he turned around to return back towards the truck that’s when fraleigh struck him with the shovel. And yes the police were called several times by both neighbors. This guy is a total wack job and the only reason he didn’t kill this 20 year old was apparently the angels watching over him. Because Fraleigh also testified that he had an axe and a machete. Which after he used the shovel he picked up the axe, by then I’m told the parents came out. He dropped the axe and ran into his house. I don’t know what witnesses he keeps talking about. The only people who were there. Were Fraleigh, Wells and the other 20 year old that he hit, when he kicked the fence. And the cops did take evidence. They took the shovel, and the axe. So I don’t know why he keeps saying they didn’t take evidence. He also doesn’t say how he shot out there front door window, a bedroom window, and put shaving cream in the door handles of one of their cars on a freezing cold winters night, also, he wrote graffiti on his own rented house, in red spray paint slandering the neighbors.
        I agree nobody was surprised by what happened.. they were surprised it hasn’t happened sooner.

  2. rumpole2 says:

    Of course every case is different…. just an interesting “statistic” though.
    In gambling terms….these two result should not change the odds going into GZ’s immunity hearing… but gamblers often do “make the mistake” of imagining that if “tails” has come up twice, then “heads” is more likely on a third (independent) toss of the coin. :D

    Of course a hearing should NOT be determined by the “odds” of a random result occurring… so I would bet on George to WIN!! Not just on likelihood of random result.. but because George (George’s case) has excellent “Form”

    Which as always reminds me of a song :D

    • LetJusticePrevail says:

      Yes, I agree that the case of State v Fraleigh is factually quite different from the case of State v Zimmerman, but I have concerns about this judge’s moral fiber. I don’t believe she has the courage or “chutzpah” to rule in favor of immunity in ANY case, let alone one as controversial as this one. She will have to be compelled by such an overwhelming defense presentation that she has absolutely no choice but to rule in their favor, or face certain ridicule from her peers. A narrow preponderance of evidence will give her the “wiggle room” she wants so she can kick the responsibility to a jury. Mark and Don better bring their “A GAME”.

      • rumpole2 says:

        I was just discussing similar thoughts elsewhere.
        Sure… Nelson could be in CYA mode, and so opt to kick the can down the road to a jury, but…….
        By the time of the immunity hearing, CYA might well be best served by distancing oneself from the ongoing farce. By then a rat or two may have already jumped ship, and that could become the PC option.
        Nelson in CYA mode may well also be mindful of her decision at immunity hearing being appealed.. and reversed.

        • howie says:

          That is what will happen. Appeal and reverse.

        • jordan2222 says:

          Maybe the defense is taking its time hoping that someone will fold who could bring down the entire charade.

          Do you believe that everyone will hold on to the bitter end?

          If someone decides to “fess up” what steps can they take to be immune from legal action? Would they go to the defense first?

          As far as I know the defense could not legally get such a person protection.

      • tara says:

        Right now, knowing only the most superficial details of the other two cases, I think she ruled properly in those cases. If you’re going to establish that you feared for your life, you’d better have some good evidence to back it up. It’s my understanding that these men were uninjured. And Kishawn Jones made things worse for himself by going on the run for several days after his shooting.

        • John Galt says:

          “Right now, knowing only the most superficial details of the other two cases, I think she ruled properly in those cases.”

          Can’t tell much without seeing Nelson’s actual orders, which might reveal if she is capable of correctly applying facts to applicable law. It really aggravates me when they don’t publish the actual order, forcing reliance on some nitwit reporter’s spin.

      • jello333 says:

        No, if Nelson rules wrongly, whether for lack of courage or just legal incompetence, it will NOT get kicked to a jury. It’ll just get kicked up to the appeals court… and that’ll be the end of it. But I’ll repeat, as I’ve been saying… I still wouldn’t be surprised to see something happen with this case before we even reach that point. I don’t think the prosecution is gonna allow Dee Dee to be deposed… which would effectively end this case.

    • Liberals USED to be the Optimistic Ones says:

      I suspect george will lose the immunity hearing since the judge is just a surrogate for the persecution

      • jordan2222 says:

        Please do not misunderstand this but you have become the most negative member here about George’s future.

        Even DMan no longer actively takes that stance and he has been a doubting Thomas from the start.

        Do you really believe that there is no hope for George to be declared immune?

        You are certainly entitled to your opinion but I can’t help but think about how George reacts to some of your comments.

        I understand the basis of your concerns but I want to believe that the truth will prevail.

        No offense, whatsoever, is intended. I am only expressing my opinion of your opinions.

        • tara says:

          I also don’t intend offense, but I too was dragged down by the negativity of that post. On the other hand, I can understand the frustration. The entire process for GZ has been a debacle since Crump got involved, and for a while there it looked like no amount of reason and facts and evidence could turn it around! I’m thinking the best of Nelson. I have not seen anything yet to convince me that she will be unfair. She ruled against the other two guys because they didn’t have sufficient evidence to establish self-defense to the degree of being awarded immunity. She allowed the cases to proceed to trial where a jury could decide. I think it was appropriate. As Chris posted above, the evidence in support of GZ is very strong.

          • tara says:

            I want to add that even though some thought that Nelson refusing to alter GZ’s bond conditions, and I too hoped that they could been changed, I don’t take it as a sign that she’s against GZ. I think she just didn’t have a compelling reason to change them. Mark Nejame said that he wasn’t surprised, these kinds of requests are common, sometimes they’re successful, sometimes not. I don’t think it’s a big deal or a sign of things to come.

            • Liberals USED to be the Optimistic Ones says:

              I can certainly see that a refusal to alter bond conditions is not by itself an indicator of bias.

          • jello333 says:

            I agree. Based on what little I know of those other two cases, i think Nelson ruled correctly. Which is GOOD news for George. I mean, if Nelson is capable of just relying on the facts, and applying the law to them… George wins easy.

        • canadacan says:

          Accentuate the positive eliminate the negative
          The. Treepers. Are here for George.

        • justfactsplz says:

          I take a stand that George will win immunity. The evidence will be overwhelming in his favor. The defense must show evidence that George was not the aggressor. His injuries and calling for help prove he was defending his life. If the defense brings down the whole Dee Dee narrative to be a fabrication it will be game over.

          • canadacan says:

            Just the fax please you have guts. You are preparing to armand
            protect yourself when George is exonerated you stand your ground good for you

            • justfactsplz says:

              I stand up for what is right. I know George and Shellie are innocent and they have been persecuted and railroaded. I will continue to stand up for them all the way. We are prepared to protect ourselves.

          • allhail2 says:

            I agree with you. With Fraleigh, his “attacker” has a shovel slash on the back of his head. TM’s “attacker, “GZ, has a busted nose, bleeding, swelling on the front plus the two gashes on the back of his head. And we havn’t even touched on yelling for help for 40 secs.

            • justfactsplz says:

              Also Trayvon had no signs on his body that he was being attacked or beaten by George.

              • tara says:

                AND DD2 (and probably DD1 too) stated that it was Trademark who initiated the verbal confrontation. All very powerful evidence to show that it was Trademark who was the aggressor.

        • Liberals USED to be the Optimistic Ones says:

          I dont anticipate the judge being willing to make a fair decision based upon the facts of the case considering her actions thus far (and considering the BEFORE and AFTER the criminal prosecution of the Duke Lacrosse players who recently lost in civil court).
          The judge has been very lame with regard to demanding the prosecutors provide discovery in both viable formats and in a timely manner.
          While the prosecution has been very slow to provide exculpatory evidence, the media has been quick to blame the defense, and the judge has been anythign but a neutral arbiter of justice sicne she has put the onus on the defense to figure out what they are missing rather than telling the prosecution that NOT providing brady material would be grounds for a mistrial or contempt of court (making it seem like the defense was stalling, not the prosecutors). The judge is acting toothless toward the prosecution and tough on the defense (I wouldnt mind if she was consistent).
          There are many who still consider the Duke stripper/prosititue to be the victim and there will be an attempt to mkae sure that even if George is exonerated, the meme of Trayvon as victim shall live on, in my I hope not too pessimistic viewpoint.

          • Liberals USED to be the Optimistic Ones says:

            And it may seem pessimistic, but there are some that will try to cover the tracks of a prosecutor working outside of the law (like nifong) in part to ensure George and his family dont win civil suits agasint the bad actors who demonized him and made him and his family go into hiding.

            • Sha says:

              Lib : Everyone knows you mean well….. :) But Don’t put doubts in your heart are mind they take root. One person has very little power but many have alot ! George does not stand alone …. He has YOU and the rest of us , his family and legal team . WE WILL NOT FAIL !!! Speak things as if they where not as they are. (The Bible) NOW…. I need a good joke someone got one ! To much sadness…..lately

              • dmoseylou says:

                Sha, This is not a joke per se, but it is funny…hope it makes you giggle a little.

                To All Non-Pet Owners Who Visit & Like to Complain About Our Pets:

                1. They live here. You don’t.
                2. If you don’t want their hair on your clothes, stay off the furniture. (That’s why they call it ‘fur’-niture.)
                3. I like my pets a lot better than I like most people.
                4. To you, it’s an animal. To me, he/she is an adopted son/daughter who is short, hairy, walks on all fours and doesn’t speak clearly.

                Remember: In many ways, dogs and cats are better than kids because they:
                1. Eat less.
                2. Don’t ask for money all the time.
                3. Are easier to train.
                4. Normally come when called.
                5. Never ask to drive the car.
                6. Don’t hang out with drug-using friends.
                7. Don’t smoke or drink.
                8. Don’t have to buy the latest fashions.
                9. Don’t want to wear your clothes.
                10. Don’t need a ‘gazillion’ dollars for college.

                And finally,
                11. If they get pregnant, you can sell their children.

              • justfactsplz says:

                Good for you Sha, my sentiments exactly. Call in the things that be not as though they are. Faith and lots of faith is what the Zimmermans need right now and so do all of us. A few can chase thousands. There is power in the prayers of those who believe. I am thinking positive thoughts and good will towards my friends. The Zimmermans are under a tremendous amount of stress. We can best serve them by words of encouragement and keeping on keeping on investigating and shinning our light.

          • hooson1st says:

            I welcome your negativity, it adds to the broad spectrum of opinion here.

            The judge, however, has not made any unusual decisions, so far, in this case.

            • howie says:

              That is true. The norm. She is following Lester’s lead. There is no justification for this case to exist. I think she will continue the “usual” for this case. So far there has not been a constitutional issue raised.

        • diwataman says:

          Oh I’m still a Doubting Thomas, lol, that’s for sure. We’re still in the process of understanding what went down with the SPD but I think just about everyone can agree that they, including the lead investigator, just wanted to hand this thing off to Wolfinger. Wolfinger decided to hand it off to Governor Scott. Scott chose the lady known for “overcharging” and what a surprise we get murder in the second degree despite the evidence. A few judges later, a prosecutor who lies and plays games with witnesses and evidence and a defense lawyer who has had this case for over eight months who has had more access to information then we do still has yet to catch up and file motions in a timely manner as well. Nearly every single media outlet; major channels, cable channels, print, blog, etc. all singing the same Crump tune. In the face of all of that and everything we have seen you really want me to put on the optimist hat and just say don’t worry the evidence will exonerate George? If we believed that then what are we doing here? Shouldn’t we do just like they tell us and “let the process work”?

          I just wanted to add this as well. One of the main reasons why you should not in a sense be a treeper for George is because if you make this about one man then what happens when that one man is exonerated? You go home? What about the next guy? And the next? And the next? Or the people in the meantime while one’s focus is on this one man?

          • jordan2222 says:

            Unfortunately, there will probably always be someone in a position similar to George’s. When this case ends, that does not mean that the Tree House ends.

            While it is true that a lot of us found the TH as a result of this case, I suspect that many of us also follow the other threads.

            I have turned friends on to this site, initially because of George’s plight but MOST of those people now read the other threads and do NOT follow the case like those of us who want to know every single detail. This is a very complex case for the average person who has different priorities.

            Others will follow.

          • howie says:

            I think you raise a good question. Did Wolfinger decide to hand off? Or was the handoff part of a play action. With the CRS as the coach.

          • Redrider says:

            Diwataman: Sorry but I have more faith in Chief Lee and the Sanford PD, they did not simply just want to hand it off to Wolfinger. You present your case and he (Wolfinger) is the decing factor, when he did not take the actions the Travonites demanded then good ole Scott stepped in and handed over to A. Corey

      • John Galt says:

        “I suspect george will lose the immunity hearing”

        All of the evidence indicates that Trayvon was the initial aggressor and shot in self-defense. Nelson would have to make a whacky ruling that getting out of the car and briefly following a suspicious looking individual constitutes adequate aggression to justify a physical assault, even after Z attempted to retreat to his vehicle prior to being attacked. Such a ruling would grant free reign to sucker punchers. “She was following and eyeballing me. I felt threatened, so I decked her. She didn’t have to get out of the car. Justice for Trayvon.”

  3. LouDaJew says:

    it’s obvious the State doen’t want to release Trayvon’s pic after he was shot. I think a lot of people will see a more true Trayvon than the media is presenting. yes, the Trayvonites will ridicule me, but that piece of evidence will help the defense tremendously. it will also show the true size of Trayvon. Trayvonites DO NOT want to see the true size of Trayvon.

    • LouDaJew says:

      a HD pic, and not a copy of a copy. LOL

    • Liberals USED to be the Optimistic Ones says:

      Ironically, that pic was “accidentally” released at the same time as George’s school records were “accidentally” released (of course the media released everything on George while withholding everything on Trayvon)

      • tara says:

        Right, as if the school records have any relevance. I would just like to say in GZ’s defense that even though I scored in the 90-something percentile on all standardized tests including ACT, in my first semester of college I earned 2 C’s and 2 D’s. And throughout the first several years I had a total grade rollercoaster. If people would have looked at my grades and knew nothing else about me, they would have written me off as a dummy or a slacker, neither of which were true.

        • tara says:

          Smoking Gun still has that fuzzy black and white copy of a copy of a copy of a fax of a copy (Candace Smith approved!).

          • rumpole2 says:

            Since this photo was included in discovery and released publicly “by mistake” it does at least mean that MOM was given this photo (and others similar?).
            It is in Bernie’s favoured “crap copy you can’t see properly” format… but as we have seen… Bernie will have to cough up a proper digital copy to MOM. The public most likely will never see that… but I assume it is available for MOM to present to the jury. :D

        • Liberals USED to be the Optimistic Ones says:

          I dont consider failure to be a character flaw (I did not get to my middle of the road station in life without much failure). I know many people who are high school drop outs who are successful tradespeople who can read highly technical manuals and do very sophisticated things. They may not do best on exams, but I would trust them in an apocalypse any day of the week. They can fix their cars better than most people I know.
          Struggling in school is not a problem . Trying to find the right program for an individual student to find the area where they can succeed is critical.Parental involvement is required to find the right fit (and educated parents arent always the best at finding the right fit for their kids-they can succumb to trying to find what the parents want for the kid, rather than what is a good fit for the kid).
          That being said, there are classes that I got a C or a D in and I learned far more than many of the classes I got an A in. I got a C+ in 2 D art (with only one A on any of my projects), but I learned a heck of a lot.

          • myopiafree says:

            Hi Optimistic – Some learn from “failure”. It is indeed painful – if you have gone through it – in school and in life. I like to think about it this way:

            1) The “A” student is an excellent worker in a factory.
            2) The “B” student is his manager, and
            3) The “C” student owns the factory.

    • Chip Bennett says:

      it’s obvious the State doen’t want to release Trayvon’s pic after he was shot.

      Doesn’t the Earnhardt Law apply to release of such photos?

    • justfactsplz says:

      You are right. Trayvon is bigger than they have said. Also they need the pictures taken of Trayvon’s hands.

  4. nobaddog says:

    Has anyone here seen the TV interview of the Sandy Hook father of a dead child where he gets into character before speaking.
    I do find it strange what he did. If i were in his shoes i wouldn’t be able to even speak. He did talk about donations. This was the next day. Heres a link. I dont know how to post the video. The whole interview is on You Tube also. I would hate to think this is fake! Any ideas?

    • nobaddog says:

      Geez. I wanted to put this in the open thread. Sorry. I wont do it again.
      Don’t worry about it! ;) It happens. –Admin

      • tara says:

        Well that’s bizarre! I thought that guy was odd from the moment he first stepped in front of the camera. Like he’s one of those “First!” people, getting his kid’s name out there before anyone else, also pictures, lengthy speech, it all seemed really strange to me because I’m quite sure if I were in his position I’d be home with the drapes closed and I would only be talking to immediate family, plus crying like crazy. Have we seen the mother?

        • tara says:

          I looked a bit for info about this guy. I found an article providing a few details:

          [Robbie Parker] moved his family from Utah to Connecticut eight months ago after accepting a job as a physician’s assistant in the newborn unit at Danbury Hospital. That’s where he was when he got word of the shooting — in a telephone call from his wife. Parker, though, was unable to leave the hospital, which went into lockdown as a precaution over the school shooting. “It went from … ‘I can’t imagine this is happening. This has to be some sort of a mistake,’” Parker said. “I didn’t think it was that big of a deal at first. I thought with the first reports that were coming in it didn’t sound like it was going to be as tragic as it was.” When the lockdown was lifted, Parker raced to a firehouse near the school where parents were gathering to wait for news of their children. There, a photographer captured a photo of an agonized Parker and his sobbing wife, Alissa, as they left the firehouse, presumably after discovering their daughter was among the casualties.


          Katie Couric’s interview with the Robbie and Alissa Parker is here:


            • nobaddog says:

              Hes not dressed very good for being a physician’s assistant. Its not what i would have done. I cant think of a more horrible thing to happen to a parent. Thanks tara for that information. I will keep watching this. People are screaming fake and i dont put anything past our leaders. How did they say that. The ends justify the means. I still think they did the WTC collapse.

              • Chip Bennett says:

                People are screaming fake and i dont put anything past our leaders. How did they say that. The ends justify the means. I still think they did the WTC collapse.

                A Truther? Really?

                • Sharon says:

                  Oh, dear…..it gets weird when there are truly so many deceptive things going on in government. We want to uncover and expose and pound on the deceptions. But it does no good to drift over toward, “Government claims gravity pulls things toward the earth. They lie” or let comments stand unchallenged that go that direction.

                  Even though it’s a bit ditzy on some days, gotta draw the lines. …..sigh…..thanks for making note, Chip.

              • nameofthepen says:

                nobaddog says: “I still think they did the WTC collapse.”

                I do, too. However, even though I consider the research here on the Trayvon Martin incident to be some of the finest – and bravest – detective work I’ve ever seen, I believe some subjects are just too…er, “over the top” even for this group.

                • Chip Bennett says:

                  …I believe some subjects are just too…er, “over the top” even for this group.

                  “Over the top”?

                  No. Just asinine and ridiculous. Unlike the Zimmerman case, where there is some benefit to be gained from debating Martin supporters, in my experience there is absolutely no benefit in attempting to debate or reason with a Truther. The only thing for such a ludicrous belief is marginalization.

                  • nobaddog says:

                    I’ve never been called a truther before and i dont think its asinine to question anything that just doesn’t look right. Just forget i even mentioned it Chip. Again i apologize for posting in the wrong place.

                  • nameofthepen says:

                    Chip sez: “…a Truther…asinine and ridiculous…ludicrous belief…”

                    Thank you for sharing that, Chip.

                    Of course, it’s not the first time I’ve heard it.

                    But, it’s always bracing to re-visit that viewpoint.

                    Who knows? Perhaps an airplane actually did penetrate, and completely traverse, a massive steel and concrete building, emerging from the other side with its fiberglass nosecone intact, as we saw on the “live news”. After all, wasn’t it a day of many, many “firsts”? ;)

        • Ugh says:

          Mr and Mrs Parker look and talk like they are literally crazy, I would be crazy also if that was 1 of my children! Odd that they are out where the press can exploit them. As far as Mr. Parker laughing and seeming to be acting, It may look odd but not totally suspicious.Our family experienced a sudden death of a family member and we reminisced and even laughed about things. I give the man leeway , he did just lose a child.

  5. sundance says:

    So Deep Underground (worlds most tentacled rabbit hole evah) my flashlight batteries keep running out.

    May 22nd 2012 – Miami-Dade Schools Police Chief Reassigned, District Says

    The Miami-Dade County Public Schools said Monday that Police Chief Charles Hurley has been reassigned while an investigation is conducted.

    The investigation began after two detectives sent letters to Miami-Dade Superintendent of Schools Alberto Carvalho accusing Hurley of age discrimination, corruption and manipulation of crime statistics.

    Major Gerald Kitchell is serving as acting chief of the Miami-Dade Schools Police Department and district security, schools spokesman John Schuster said in a statement.

    “The school district takes all allegations very seriously. As a result, an investigation was immediately initiated when an allegation was made concerning Miami-Dade Schools Police. The district’s process follows a strict protocol that protects the complainant while ensuring due process for all, and seeks to avoid any distraction from the district’s core function,” Schuster said. “For these reasons, Chief Charles Hurley has been reassigned pending the outcome of an investigation.”

    In one of the letters obtained by NBC 6, a senior detective wrote, “He asked that I reduce the number of arrests I affect of all black juveniles. I told him regardless of the race of an individual; if probable cause existed for an arrest that individual would be arrested. He was not happy with my response to his request.”

    That detective also claims Hurley orders officers to send students for psychiatric treatment under the Baker Act as opposed to sending them to juvenile detention. The officer says it’s an effort to reduce the crime statistics in the district.

    “I firmly believe that the crime statistics in my department are being manipulated to show a reduction in crime,” he wrote.




    Note – This is not in the abstract to TM. not.in.the.least.little.bit. Need More Batteries.

    October 1012 – Miami-Dade Schools Police Department Receives IACP Civil Rights Award

    For its effort, the MDSPD was the recipient of the prestigious International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP), Civil Rights Award. The award was presented to Acting Chief Gerald Kitchell and Commander Deanna Fox-Williams during the IACP Annual Conference, which was held in San Diego, California from September 29 – October 3, 2012.


    Deana Fox-Williams is Married to Detective Eugene Williams.


    (((bump ))) (((bumb))) Arrrrgh…. Damn Flashlight…. rut roh… sshhhhhhh {{{{whassat?}}}

    • Liberals USED to be the Optimistic Ones says:

      So, in other words, thugvon attacked the bus driver (like he did GZ, a ala the knockout game) and instead of arresting the thug in training (and giving him a record of violent unprovoked attacks, they gave him an award as “most cheerful”).
      I guess MAYBE brandy green hadnt needed to get involved in hiding his history of thuggery as the schools were already working hard to turn out thugs without records of thuggery

    • tara says:

      It’s interesting that Huffington Post’s version of this article leaves out the racial aspect. They just say that Hurley wanted to “make it appear that crimes have decreased under his watch.”

      • sundance says:

        This “rabbit hole” is going to be a considerable “eye opener” If, and that’s a big “IF” I can get the FOIA releases from the investigation.

        From what I can tell already, based on the actions of Chief Charles Hurley , he demanded that black perps be “reclassified” by the entire investigative team within the Miami-Dade Schools Police Dept, and in many cases instructed them to use the “baker act” to re-route the recording of the illegal lawbreaking by directing the use of “Baker Act” psychological evaluation.

        In short hold them outside of the juvenile detention process by directing them into psychological evaluation medical care instead. So black youth avoided criminal penalty, and criminal records, because the Chief of Miami-Dade School Police reclassified them.

        After the two of the six officers who are part of the M-DSPD refused, he, Chief Charles Hurley, retailiated against them by busting up the entire division. He reassigned them all.

        Talk about Cultural Marxism run amock. This is ridiculous.

        • tara says:

          So is Hurley another Jasmine Rand? White crusader for the blacks? Or he was following specific orders from Deana Fox-Williams who had racial motivations (I see she’s black) ? Or is it simply that the black kids comprised such a large percentage of the arrests that in order to drop the total number if was necessary to decrease the arrests of black kids?

          • sundance says:

            I don’t know his motivation. However, if I were a guessing person I would link it to Jesse Jackson and his claim that “school suspensions” are racist because too many black boys get suspended.

            Something along those PC lines, it would appear. Still digging. Because I believe this is involved in the March 5 => 8 decision to seek court order to seal *records*.

    • justfactsplz says:

      More batteries on the way Sundance. And also a high powered lantern to light the way as you go deeper and deeper in this hole. Good luck!

    • howie says:

      All this is is social justice. It is now invading the CJS. We are so far over the cliff it is unbelievable. We have been defeated from within by the communists. If there is anything that could disprove that notion I would sure like to hear about it. Social Justice=Communism. Any arguments?

  6. tara says:

    I realize that Trademark’s actions at the 7-11 really don’t matter, but I was wondering about those other three guys who showed up after Trademark exited the store, the ones we’re all quite sure were connected to Trademark. I’m guessing Trademark had been in contact with one of them prior to their arrival at the store, and the phone number is in his phone records. Do you think BDLR made any effort to establish contact? Does GZ’s defense team have a copy of the phone records? If so, if they see that phone calls had been made during the time just before, during, or just after Trademark was at the 7-11 do they have a right to contact the person Trademark spoke to in order to find out if that person has any knowledge of Trademark’s state of mind or purpose?

    • John Galt says:

      I suspect that the details of the phone records comprise one of the many pitfalls awaiting Dee Dee in her deposition.

    • Liberals USED to be the Optimistic Ones says:

      Would it make a difference if any of the three stooges were members of local gangs had records of burglary before or since? Would the police be eager to investigate that or not? maybe it doesnt matter?
      Would it have made a didfference if George hadnt been made a national celebrity and had merely been persecuted without the nationla spotlight? It migth have been far easier to proceed with the persecution without the national spotlight (the defense would have less well endowed finacially).

  7. ottawa925 says:

    I’m not familiar with this guy, but well … here take a look:

    Katt Williams slaps target employee (did not look like slap to me … looked like what we are use to seeing here with the sucker punch)

    • Sha says:

      He played a pimp in a move called the Friday after next , second part to the move Friday.

    • Liberals USED to be the Optimistic Ones says:

      I live in the State of Florida. I know male veterans who are treated like this when they show up at the local homeless shelter (he gets punched, the staff only intervenes if you strike back-easily ten people witness the sucker punch thrown in the middle fo the cafeteria). The whites are targeted by a portion of the AA community for victimhood and those that run the shelter do NOTHING to stop it. The staff are almost entirely AA, also almost entirely veterans, and do not mind showing who their people are (just like our attorney general).
      I know many people who live in tents in the woods (almost exclusively white and almost entirely male). White males get the worst treatment at the local shelter (so, they go live in the woods). I have asked for nearly a year and only one black person lives in the woods (they get the best treatment at the shelter).
      I dont want whites to get priority. I dont want anyone to get priority other than those whose needs are the greatest. This affects how I see things. I dont live in a tent, but I feel considerably for those that do. I still wish our local social services were gender and race neutral, but I am so pessimistic about it, I may need to alter my moniker.

      • Sha says:

        Lib : It’s horrible when anyone is mistreated. My weaknesses are children , elderly and animals. If you wont to see the meanness come out of me let me see you hurt one . Life has a way of breaking people down…. Everyone has good times and bad. Some handle the hard times better than others. If you don’t like what you see do something…. make some calls , write some letters you are a smart man make some noise. No one likes unwanted attention when there doing wrong , bring attention to the situation , But don’t just let it make you bitter.

        • Liberals USED to be the Optimistic Ones says:

          I wanna do a video expose a la brietbart about the racist treatment of people living in homeless shelters (especially white male veterans). it would of course be about the good kind of hate, minorities hating whites

          • Sha says:

            Lib : wrong is wrong. If those men are being treated badly do what your heart tells you to do. Those men are already down they don’t need anyone to kick them while they are there.

        • Liberals USED to be the Optimistic Ones says:

          I do bring attention to this situation (even if it is unpopular).
          Among the best things a perosn can do to improve the situation is to point out its shortcomings (in part because I might be able to change things somewhat locally, but perchance I would prefer to make changes that have a broader effect).

    • Liberals USED to be the Optimistic Ones says:

      Notice how the target employee is trying to pleasantly and respectfully placate a disgruntled customer. Notice how t Target employee is treated (but feel bad for the customer, he is a spoiled entitled RICH entertainer).
      I wonder if the president is gonna have a beer summit on this one?

    • LouDaJew says:

      the Target employee then got fired after he was suckerpunched.

      • LouDaJew says:

        wrong vid keeps showing up . MAN. it’s in the cue though. please fast forward.

        • nameofthepen says:

          LouDaJew says: “wrong vid keeps showing up…”

          Lou, YouTube has tweaked all the URLs in anyone’s lists now. They hope it will entice people to stay on YouTube longer. Idiotic, IMHO.

          Anyway, when you post a URL here, you need to trim off all the additives from the basic bare-bones essentials. The one you posted looks like this (I added spaces, so it will stay displayed as text):

          http://www .youtube .com /watch?v=NKi-bNURj0s &list=UUDW4aIVlwk5VRTuurWquk5Q

          The only thing that will embed correctly here is the
          http://www .youtube .com
          plus the
          (of course, no spaces between those two portions of the code)

          Also, be aware that many YouTube videos now start their URLs with an “S” included in the first “string”. Example:

          Those won’t embed either, but will show up simply as a URL if you don’t delete the “s” first.

      • Liberals USED to be the Optimistic Ones says:

        just found out the white victim was fired from target.
        And the black perpetrator is acting like a victim to the media who is eating up his excuses like candy (not surprisingly, NPR and othe rliberal outlets dont like to portray this kind of racism).
        this guy is claiming that the tagret employee used racial epithets and that is why he got physical (his virgin ears). that would justify murder among the racist aa community (and the liberal elite)

  8. ottawa925 says:

    Ok, I have one that is hard to believe – and I think he learned this in prison cause that’s what they do in prison (seen enough shows like Lockdown):

    Man throws feces

  9. mung says:

    Got to love it. One of the main idiots over at Click Orlando thinks I am George. The reason given?
    “There’s something very odd about all your post concerning George. Its like you’ll jump in shark infested waters for this dude. Thats not normal for someone who supposedly never met before. Either you just may have one of those bizarre infatuation over this guy or “What ever you say, George…”

    So I guess we are all George Zimmerman.

    • myopiafree says:

      Hi Mung – I am here because I believe George is not receiving fair treatment by the Florida Justice System. I guess that makes me a “George Zimmerman” also.

      • eastern2western says:

        The problem with most trayvonites is that they always contradict each other. They make fun of zimmerman’s weight, but they also believe he was some super fast dude who could catch up with trayvon who had 2 minutes start. They claim the screams are from trayvon, but they also admitt that trayvon was definitely winning the fight and beating the bloody pulp out of zimmerman because he defending himself. The used self defense to defend trayvon beating zimmerman to half death, but they can not grasp the concept of self defense is not beating the living day light out of a person. At the end, any one who dares to taint the magical angelic saint trayvon is a kkk member to them and all cops have been conspiring to cover trayvon’s murder under wraps. However, the sad part is none of them can find the problem of a master assasin killer like george zimmerman would confess his intentions to a 911 operator before kills trayvon.

      • justfactsplz says:

        My whole family has t shirts that say,”I am George Zimmerman”. Some have been brave enough to wear them out and about and even in Sanford. Not me though. We all got together and took pictures in them and sent them to George and Shellie. That gave them a good laugh.

    • tara says:

      Uh, did any of them actually meet Trademark?

    • rumpole2 says:

      Nah….. you are not George…. are you? lol

      Maybe George has a cunning plan…. so cunning you could stick a tail on it and call it a “weasel”

      Maybe…… Bigboi is really George?

      Pretending to be stupid, bigoted and wilfully ignorant to discredit the anti-George side.

      It makes sense… nobody could really be that stupid…. could they?

    • justfactsplz says:

      I guess I missed that post Mung. Who was it? Remember when they thought I was Shellie or Shellie’s mom? They just could not seem to believe I was a friend.

  10. ottawa925 says:

    I searched this thread for the word Senator, but it didn’t come up. Here’s a link to the Florida Senator filing for revision of the SYG:


    • mung says:

      I want to propose a LYG law where if you are laying on the ground with someone on top of you, you are required to shoot the person.

      • John Galt says:

        “I want to propose a LYG law”

        Apparently badly needed, in view of State’s prosecution of Z.

        776.012 Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:
        (1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or
        (2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013.

        Proposed Amendment – Zimmerman’s Law

        ; or
        (3) the person is pinned on his back getting beaten MMA style.

  11. diwataman says:

    Yeah, after a lunatic murders a bunch of children I’m going to get Sybrina Fulton’s input of all people, the cases are so similar after all.


    • recoverydotgod says:

      The author Edward Wyckoff Williams of the link you posted above 8 months ago

      Edward Wyckoff Williams and CBS Washington’s Andrea Roane discuss Trayvon Martin and the Second-Degree Murder Charges Against George Zimmerman


    • brutalhonesty says:

      They are trying so hard to remain relevant.
      “Guns don’t shoot themselves. The common denominator in all these [mass shooting] tragedies, including the death of my son, is a gun and bad intent,” Fulton said. “I think gun control is necessary. And we need it now.”

      Benjamin Crump, the Martin family attorney, agreed. “I think Americans are adopting a dangerous notion of ‘shoot first,’ and lax guns laws only serve to exacerbate that notion,” he told The Root. “We must make our politicians accountable.”
      And the irony is rich, doesnt this man have a violation for having a gun illegally?


      • John Galt says:


        The emails sent to West and purportedly authored by Crump also seem amazingly literate in marked contrast to his normal off the cuff verbal presentations.

      • dmoseylou says:

        “Guns don’t shoot themselves” [...]

        More words of wisdom from Mensa Mom. Of course guns do not shoot themselves; people shoot their mouths off, and occasionally shoot themselves in the foot, but I have never heard about guns shooting themselves. I guess they could, but only if “it was an accident” on a dark, rainy night in February, or they were “sacrificed to expose injustice” (from cheap bullets?)

      • jordan2222 says:

        Sometimes it is tempting to say that George’s actions prevented a thug from ever assaulting anyone else again. OK, I wrote it but I did not say that.

        • jello333 says:

          After reading what Sybrina said, I think I just lost what tiny little bit of sympathy I had left for the woman. Worthless.

      • jello333 says:

        “The common denominator in all these [mass shooting] tragedies, including the death of my son, is a gun and bad intent,” Fulton said.

        Ok, I’m normally not so blunt when talking about her, but this is different…

        Shut up, Sybrina! Stop with the exploitation of your son, and PLEASE stop with the exploitation of these little kids who were just killed. Those kids and your son have NOTHING in common…. ZERO! You are trying to dirty the memory of all the little kids who were just shot, by comparing them to Trayvon…. who, as O’Mara said, “got himself shot through his own actions.”

    • brutalhonesty says:

      From their changefortrayvon FAQ:
      Q: Are you against gun ownership?

      No, we just believe in responsible gun ownership. Sybrina Fulton and Tracy Martin firmly believe in the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution and Sybrina’s father was a law enforcement officer who taught her from an early age about responsible gun ownership.

      Q: So, do you want to do away with self-defense laws?
      No, the current Stand Your Ground laws are ambiguous, vague, and repetitive of already existing self-defense laws. Since the 1800′s, the U.S. has had an already established common law which protects an individual’s right to initiate self-defense actions up to and including the justifiable use of lethal force against an aggressor. There is no need for states to incorporate Stand Your Ground laws on top of already existing laws.

      Pretty much invalidates their statements about the school shooting. Two prong: they themselves have been privy to gun ownership and being taught about proper use and safety, and were allowed so under current laws they now seek to cry out against, and their call for more gun control laws conflicts with their dislike of stand your ground, namely that “the current Stand Your Ground laws are ambiguous, vague, and repetitive of already existing self-defense laws. ” as much if not more so than the gun control laws they seek. I could also add how many gun control laws have been on the books since the 1800s, but that would be animal abuse and I dont care to beat dead horses.

    • jordan2222 says:

      I thought her calling was to be Rosa Parks’ replacement.

      • tara says:

        That’s her dream. They’ve all received the brainwashing to feel that they too can become the next civil rights icon. Fortunately some of them have rejected it and live normal lives and attribute failures and problems to just being human.

  12. brutalhonesty says:

    Change for trayvon is down again, I was looking for something, because if I recall correctly sybrina is a gun owner and stated so way back when, and accounted of how her dad was a cop and taught her about guns…. and saw this on the google list:
    Change For Trayvon – FAQs
    changefortrayvon.com/index.php/faqsNo, we just believe in responsible gun ownership. Sybrina Fulton and Tracy Martin firmly believe in the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution and Sybrina’s father …

    can anyone find a cached link?

  13. brutalhonesty says:

    contradictions: his known troubles versus sybrina’s claim:
    “Trayvon has a grandfather that is a retired police officer in Miami, so he knows to respect authority,” Fulton said. “He knows about the police, he’s not afraid of the police. However, he’s seen this guy (Zimmerman) as a stranger, so of course he’s going to try to run. He’s going to try to get away. He’s going to try to avoid any situation. And that’s what we really believe, that he was really trying to get away.”

    I would add that if George is a wanna-be-cop, then it stands to reason that Trayvon would have all reason to believe George was a cop, in an undercover vehicle or on his own time in his own vehicle…black youth around here refer to those kind of “on duty” cops as “jump out boys”.

    We have George on the phone, observing, reporting, giving locations and directions and descriptions, holding a maglite iirc one of those ones that holds multiple D-cell batteries, wearing boots and brightly colored rain resistant jacket, walking around as if with some authority and a sense of belonging…….if I were to profile George and had my choice between cop, civilian, criminal, based upon the above criteria I would conclude he was a cop, or security…and hey guess what, he essentially was security, as neighborhood watch “captain”.

  14. recoverydotgod says:

    Favorite question/answer on Crump presser on March 20th is right at the end 2:06 when some reporter asks him “Have you made a transcript of that”? And Crump answers “Nah…I haven’t yet…”

  15. brutalhonesty says:

    diwataman says:
    July 26, 2012 at 5:49 pm
    I’m glad someone actually got him saying it; “Had it not been for members of NOBEL organization, who are in the Sanford police department, the case would’ve went cold”

    This video is private.

    If the owner of this video has granted you access, please log in.


    • diwataman says:

      I thought that video looked familiar, lol. I put it on unlisted now, should be fine, I have no idea why it was on private and it’s not the first time that has happened with a video of mine, pfft, youtube.

    • LouDaJew says:

      must be the same NOBEL inside SPD that pressured Serino.

    • jordan2222 says:

      How does someone go to college and law school and say this:

      “the case would’ve went cold”

      I wonder if he was ever taught to “conjugate verbs.” He is sooo articulate……. even eloquent.

      • howie says:

        The message I am taking from this is ….Avoid all contact with blacks as much as possible. Unless you know them very very well. This Social Justice is a stacked deck. Guess it is having the opposite effect of its intention. As everything Liberal always does.

  16. diwataman says:

    “Sybrina Fulton, the mother of Trayvon Martin, spoke during the Hurting Families with Children in Crime, Inc. 5th Annual Breakfast at the Wyndman Jacksonville Riverwalk Hotel in Jacksonville, FL on Saturday December 15, 2012. The event was hosted by Linda Dayson, CEO and founder of Hurting Families.”

    I take that as a sign of waning support. Sybrina and Crump seem to be scraping the bottom of the barrel for events to speak at and remain relevant as brutalhonesty stated above. guidestar.org has this non profit est. in 2010 so how could it possibly be it’s 5th Annual Breakfast? They didn’t have the tax records either and I’m still looking into this Linda Dayson. It seems like Crump/Fulton doing more of a favor for Dayson than the other way around. It’s also difficult to ascertain the attendance size, my guess is that it was very small, from the photos because they don’t have any photos of the audience but of one person, strangely enough it was this guy;


  17. flaladybug says:

    Do any of you know if I can file as a Florida Citizen a FOIA request to get an estimate of the tax payer funds used to date for this ridiculous farce of a case the state is preparing. Is it public record somewhere?? Just curious how much of my money has gone to persecute an innocent man for political gain!! Could give me some leverage in something I’m working on. Thanks for any input!

    • diwataman says:

      That would be nice to know. In the larger scheme of things though I would say the tax money spent, local, state and federal, on not just the case itself but other aspect since the beginning is easily in the millions by now.

    • myopiafree says:

      Hi FLA Lady Bug – In a developing case – it is hard to make that estimate. O’mara’s estimate for DEFENSE of George is $1,000,000. The STATE will probably spend $2,000,000. The only comparison to this fraud, is the Duke/Nifong case, where – after they were declared INNOCENT – N. Carolina spend $5,000,000 defending Nifong and what he did. Now we have two “skilled liars”, Crump and DeeDee, able to “tie the STATE in knots” on their outrageous lies. Further, there will be NO PENALITY to Bernie – for NOT putting DeeDee on a lie-detector. That “detector” would have shown the Black-Prostitute was lying, and if put on DeeDee – it would should she is lying also. That would save the STATE a hell of a lot of money – if you live in Florida.

      • flaladybug says:

        Precisely my thinking and yes….Scott is in some serious re-election jeopardy at the moment. As of now he has a 31% favorable rating while Crust(who became a Democrat last week)has 47% !! He’s even having trouble with Republicans. Since Crist was the Governor at the time of the Martin Lee Anderson payout (same players…same playbook…different “victim”) and the backlash Crust received was harsh…..maybe Rick should be reminded of how quickly MANY INFLUENTIAL FLORIDIANS turned on him after that BONEHEADED decision…..including most law enforcement entities!!!

  18. tara says:

    Has anyone been watching the Change4Trayvon twitter account? https://twitter.com/Change4Trayvon

    Look at this absurd statement from Dec 11: “Judge got it right today. Zimm was the aggressor and should be behind bars. He took law into his own hands and now must pay penalty.

    It’s like the person who wrote that doesn’t even understand what happened on Dec 11. The judge didn’t say that GZ was the aggressor nor did she say that GZ should be behind bars. Even BDLR, during his bizarre lengthy argument involving all sorts of unrelated bits of info didn’t say those things. Pathetic Team Skittles is either ignorant or is counting on the ignorance of its followers.

    • diwataman says:

      They just make up their own reality as they have been since the beginning. The judge gave no reasoning or comment to her denying to change the bond conditions, just a quick and flat out denied which I’m assuming she gave consideration to prior to the hearing, or at least I hope she did.

  19. diwataman says:

    “There are no comparisons to the Trayvon Martin situation,” said Robin Lemonidis, Dunn’s attorney. “He[Michael Dunn] is devastated and horrified by the death of the teen.”

    What is that crap? It sounds like that lawyer is implying that George is joyful that he killed Trayvon.

    Speaking of Dunn, I was pretty shocked to hear the grand jury upgraded the charges to first degree murder because of the reports that Tommie Stornes, pictured in my other comment above, drove away from the gas station then came back and that Dunn also shot as they drove away. They keep saying “no guns were found inside the teens’ car” but if they drove away and came back then that was certainly an opportunity to toss the weapon. I guess there was no evidence of that?

    • John Galt says:

      ““There are no comparisons to the Trayvon Martin situation,”

      I think he’s right.

      1. GZ was physically attacked.
      2. GZ fired a single shot.
      3. GZ called for help for 40 seconds before firing.
      4. GZ called the police and awaited their arrival at the scene.
      5. There is a witness that confirms that GZ was on the ground being assaulted.
      6. GZ had injuries which prove that he was attacked.

    • John Galt says:

      “They keep saying “no guns were found inside the teens’ car” but if they drove away and came back then that was certainly an opportunity to toss the weapon.”

      Certainly an opportunity for the defense to argue that they tossed a weapon.

      Personally, if somebody threw down on me with a shotgun, I fired on them in self-defense and was fortunate enough to survive the encounter, I would call the cops to report armed, dangerous thugs fleeing the scene in possession of a shotgun.

      • diwataman says:

        Yep, that was an idiotic move by Dunn and very good points on why this is truly not like George’s case. I would assume ballistics would show that he shot as Stornes drove away if there’s no video, admission or other witness testimony.

      • LouDaJew says:

        he must have seen a shotgun. nobody in their forties is going to risk going to jail if he wasn’t sure. why did the kids drive away? Dunn should have stayed at the scene though, and hid away from his car just in case they decided to turn around.

    • kathyca says:

      And Stornes was already on probation at the time for breaking into cars, iirc, and shouldn’t have been out in the first place. It was a violation of his probation to be where he was when he was. Wouldn’t be surprised at all if they were armed and ditched them.

    • tara says:

      First degree? That doesn’t make any sense unless there’s some evidence that Dunn and his wife went to that store looking for trouble.

  20. MJW says:

    For what it’s worth, the state’s 11th supplemental discovery is listed on the Seminole County Clerk website’s Detailed Case View, but is not yet on the 18th Judicial Circuit Courts website or GZLegal.com.

  21. howie says:

    Binding authority that can not be denied must be found. This is a political prosecution. To allow Zimmerman to win is apoplectic to the collective. It is not seeking truth. It is seeking an outcome to make a political point. Lookit who is for the lynching. That tells the tale.

  22. james Fraleigh says:

    Stand your ground hearing for Fraleigh case ruled by zimmermans trial judge proves she rules on body language facial expression and intangabl bias thoughts

  23. james Fraleigh says:

    This was not a disagreement about a fence, this was a brutal attack by two underage drunks who came to kill me.i deffende myslf was framed by the Police wa attacked by attacker again,case#2 again framed by Police, notice a rcurring problem by Police?
    I had right to Defend myslf i didnt kill or hurt anyone just defused an attack judge did nothave a clue.she wd to rule on evidnce not her speculations that are not fact based.why did she falsify my tstimony in her ruling?

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