12-5 George Zimmerman Case – Open Discussion Thread

Use this thread as an open thread just for Zimmerman Case stuff. A place to just dump, collect, or discuss general information about the Trayvon Martin VS George Zimmerman Case.

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205 Responses to 12-5 George Zimmerman Case – Open Discussion Thread

  1. jello333 says:

    (Just posted this in yesterday’s thread, but thought I should put it here too.)

    Ok, here’s something I hadn’t really noticed in the last motion filed by West:

    “Since the interview in April, Witness 8 has traveled on at least one occasion from South Florida to Jacksonville to meet with prosecutors. While no further reports or recorded interviews of those meetings have been provided in discovery as of this date…”

    Which we had no idea what that referred to, till now. Info from the FDLE files just released (this is Jeralyn speaking):

    “On August 2, 2012, Moore and White picked up a witness (my assumption: Dee Dee) in Northwest Miami Dade and drove her to the Ft. Lauderdale airport where she flew to Jacksonville to meet with the State’s Attorney.

    On August 3, 2012, Moore and White picked up the witness at the Fort Lauderdale airport upon her arrival from Jacksonville and drove her to a home in Northwest Miami Dade.”

    And, as usual, Bernie/Corey are hiding evidence: “no further reports or recorded interviews of those meetings have been provided in discovery as of this date”

    Wow

  2. diwataman says:

    Also from Jeralyn’s post regarding the reports of the subpoena’s of the phone(s)
    http://www.talkleft.com/story/2012/12/4/204045/932

    My opinion right now, subject to change of course, lol, is that the only report I can say with relative certainty that is in regards to Trayvon’s phone is the March 27th report. The reason why is the date range correctly corresponds (1/1/12 to 3/1/12). They request record and location data and get it from T-Mobile on March 28th.

    The second report, April 20th, is another request for record and location data from T-mobile. Note here, there is no date range provided in the report like there was in the earlier report. T-mobile replies “No call detail records found for the time period requested.” So I am left wondering if this report was for Trayvon’s phone. Why would they ask for the same data they have already received? And if it were for a different date range of the same phone, where is that cited in the discovery that they did another search of the phone just like with the date range of 1/1/12 to 3/1/12?

    The third report, May 1st, may actually be for two separate phones. One is for a Google request for any and all stored data and password access assistance. The other, on May 14, is a T-Mobile request to reactivate voice and data service.

    • jello333 says:

      I agree, but why does Jeralyn think the first two are talking about the same phone?

      “On April 20, they got a search warrant for T-mobile to provide call detail records and location data for a phone. On May 3, T-Mobile responded it had none for the time period requested. This seems to me to also be for Trayvon’s phone.”

      Also, re. the first request, it says “they received call detail records, subscriber and billing information and historical location data for the phone…”

      “Historical location data”…. wouldn’t that be the ping logs we’ve been talking about for so long? If so, I sure haven’t seen anything like that.

      • diwataman says:

        I don’t know. You would think they could have left unredacted maybe the last two numbers of the phone numbers or used names or something to at least give us a hint as to which phone they are talking about. It very well may be this is all in regards to one phone, perhaps two, could be as many as four but since it seems everybody involved in this case uses T-Mobile, and even the calls between DeeDee and Trayvon were T-Mobile to T-Mobile, that really doesn’t help any.

        I guess that could very well be regarding the data and what T-Mobile sent. I Googled “Historical location data” “cell phone” and that seems to be what’s referenced. I would assume they would be part of Brenton’s report cited in the 9th supp. Who knows if they’ll be released.

      • myopiafree says:

        Hi Jello – Yes- those would be the “Ping Logs”.

        \“Historical location data”…. wouldn’t that be the ping logs we’ve been talking about for so long? If so, I sure haven’t seen anything like that.

  3. MJW says:

    I wonder if the second request involved DeeDee’s (supposed) phone. Simple Mobile uses the T-Mobile network.

    • arkansasmimi says:

      I remb something being requested (paraphrasing) about ALL phones in TM name. Wonder what they found out in that matter.

  4. eastern2western says:

    Judging from the length of time it took the prosecution to turn in a digital copy, the recording of the first interview between crump and dd must have a very devastating effect on the prosecution’s case. In the cnn interview, o’mara said discovery evidences are usually beneficial for the prosecution and they are basically piled on to the defense’s office without games. However, this case is different because everything that is from the da’s office supports zimmerman’s self defense claim which explains the major for the 9 month delay of this photo. A simple photo that could had been attach to an email, but the prosecution sent b/w copies first then color copies. what a freaking waste of paper. From the graininess of the copies, the prosecution probably purposely used some old printers to reduce the details because they do not even show that zimmerman was in the back of a squad car. In the new hd version, it was clearly visible that he was in the back of the car with a big shot gun behind him. In comparison, the bw copies made the back ground look pratically unregonizable. The details that is revealed by the new hd photo adds an extra nail to angela corey’s 2nd degree murder case and also brings her one step closer to nifong. Bernie Dela Rionda will probably sell her ass out in a second to save his license.
    After the hd photo, the next thing we need to hear is a clear copy of the crump dd interview because the defense copy was clearly recorded to basically destroy the audio quality. which explains why west has to write a supeona to get the copy because the prosecution has been playing hide and seek with them. Gutman better turn in his copy because his butt will probably be sitting in court very soon. What about Julison because his voice was also recorded during the first dd interview. Let the fire work begin because dd fraud will take down the whole justice for trayvon crew. Let me just count how many people are going to be talking to the florida bar association; corey, dela rionda, jackson,crump, park, rand and what else. If this case is proven fraud, msnbc will also be sue for next millenium because it is a harbor for al jackson (dude is not even a reverend at all).

    • jello333 says:

      “the recording of the first interview between crump and dd must have a very devastating effect on the prosecution’s case”

      I agree, but not necessarily for the parts that we’ve already heard. I’m sure there’s much more that wasn’t released earlier, and those parts may contain some really incriminating stuff. Like Crump pausing the interview, telling Dee Dee she answered wrong, then restarting, etc.

      • myopiafree says:

        Hi Jello – If Crump did ANY coaching, in any way, and Bernie heard it – and did REPORT IT, this case is “toast”. In fact we hear Bernie COACHING DeeDee is subtle ways, and she reacts, “…you want that TOO” – in an irritated voice. (Like I am fibbing the best I can.)

        Like Crump pausing the interview, telling Dee Dee she answered wrong, then restarting, etc.

    • “Judging from the length of time it took the prosecution to turn in a digital copy, the recording of the first interview between crump and dd must have a very devastating effect on the prosecution’s case”

      Yep – you can bet that if it helped their case the recording would have been CRYSTAL CLEAR.

    • jordan2222 says:

      eastern2western
      In your opinion, what is a “big shotgun?” Shotguns range in size from a.410 to a ten gauge, but in reality they look basically pretty the same size to the casual observer.

      The way you wrote it, I got the impression that you thought that shotgun was more like a cannon or WWII bazooka. I am not making fun of you so do not misunderstand but you go me so tickled, I had to take a break.

      Cheers.. All is well. WOLVERINES!!!

  5. Vote early. Vote often. :)

    • LetJusticePrevail says:

      17 votes so far. 88% voting YES it is prosecutorial misconduct.

      • jordan2222 says:

        It would be nice for the out of state armchair lawyers start publicly comparing this to Duke Lacrosse.

        Wouldn’t it be great if we heard “prosecutorial misconduct and malicious prosecution” repeated as much as we heard other BS talking points about the case? Doing that just might stir up some positive publicity and possibly get those folks who are “on the ropes” to see George’s predicament.

        Let’s see them open even every segment with this announcement:

        “Tonight we will bring you the latest developments in the malicious prosecution of George Zimmeman by the State of Florida.”

        If they really want to “right the record,” this would be a good start.

        I am ranting to dump some anger.

    • jordan2222 says:

      Thanks a bunch. . What a great article. A few excerpts:

      Instead of being a white ghoul emerging from shadows, he is a wounded man sitting in a car after a life-changing, possibly life-destroying, event has happened. The ghoul has flesh and blood after all. He bleeds.

      I keep using that word — manufacture — deliberately, because that is what was done here.

      In doing all of this, they deliberately stripped George Zimmerman of his humanity. Who did this? For what purpose?

  6. recoverydotgod says:

    I wonder…did ABC news [Matt Guttman] have any guidelines regarding privacy and parental consent that they had to have signed before recording the interview of a 16 year old minor?

  7. hooson1st says:

    - concerning prosecutors and disclosures –

    Once the normal police investigation was taken away from the SPD by the State, the nature of the investigation was fundamentally changed. It had now, in the practical sense, become an effort to prove an assumed conclusion.

    Prosecutors, who “know” that the target is the perpetrator, fall prey to a tendency to look for confirming evidence and to discount contradictory evidence. Textbook example of this in the GZ/TM case is BDLR’s interview with DeeDee. Listen to the tape and ask yourself if BDLR is trying to determine what DeeDee knows versus what is DeeDee’s suppositions; or is BDLR seeking to confirm certain assumptions about GZ’s conduct?

    The prosecutor is obligated to hand over exculpatory evidence to the defense in a reasonable quick fashion. In the prosecutor’s mind, photos of GZ’s bloody face don’t mean anything because everybody knows that there was an altercation, but in the prosecutor’s mind GZ is still guilty.

    The defense looks at that same photo and sees exculpatory evidence in that it confirms what GZ told the police and supports his “state of mind” as the back of his head was bouncing off the concrete a few times.

    If, and this is hard to prove, if the grainy photo was sent to defense counsel intentionally in lieu of the clear photo received last week (after months of wrangling), this is devastating to the prosecution. The likelier explanation is that the prosecution team has been cavalier in discharging their duties, something that happens all to often.

    • kathyca says:

      I call bs…I haven’t received a black and white copy of a photo in discovery in years. Standard practice is, minimum, high quality color copies, if not digital copies. It takes MORE effort and costs more to send a crappy quality printer copy than it does to send the digital copy.

      • allhail2 says:

        Exactly. Take a picture, print it, photo copy it several times and see what you get. Even on my basic home printer, my flip phone pictures are a hell of a lot clearer than that one. The things is, the state actually had to take the time to get the picture to look like that. They had to mess with the resolution, change printer setting from color to black and white, and end up with a copy of a copy of a copy. Willfull and intentional BS.

    • jello333 says:

      I know you’re not as cynical about the actions of the prosecution as many of us are. An example: “In the prosecutor’s mind, photos of GZ’s bloody face don’t mean anything because everybody knows that there was an altercation, but in the prosecutor’s mind GZ is still guilty.”

      I, of course, think you’re giving them WAY too much of a benefit of the doubt. But you’ve also said you’re keeping an open mind about all this, and so I’ll just say… wait for it! ;)

      • hooson1st says:

        jello333:

        Thanks. There’s enough of you guys who are confident of the facts, you need someone like me to keep an eye on the rear guard.

        • howie says:

          True. But in re: Corey. What do you think of her threatening Law Schools? Do you think BDLR and Guy are just puppets following orders? The benefit of the doubt should go to the defendant. Not the state.

          • hooson1st says:

            I frankly don’t know what to think about Corey since I don’t know much about her and I am puzzled by her law school remarks.

            Corey, BDLR, and Guy and the rest of the prosecution team are all adults. They are all capable of thinking for themselves and making their own decisions. i think it is a mistake to think of them as puppets.

            Cases are brought to them and they handle the cases. That is their job. That is what they are paid to do.

            The GZ/TM case has taken a twist because it was kicked upstairs. The decisions on what and how to prosecute in these high profile cases are not made by individuals, but are products of discussion and deliberation.

            The prosecutor has an ethical obligation not to file a case that he/she does not think is winnable. They may have thought this was winnable at the outset, but i suspect if the evidence keeps going the way it has we might very well see them come in change the charging document to read manslaughter of some form.

            My experience has been that the more government agencies get involved, the higher the chances of all kinds of screw-ups. The more a case is taken off a normal track, the more anomalies creep into it.

            • jordan2222 says:

              “They may have thought this was winnable at the outset, ”

              Why do you think they would have thought that? What real evidence did they find that the SPD did not find? Surely, they knew that DeeDee was a myth from the start.

              • selfdefenseadvocate says:

                IMO, they never thought it was “winnable”. It was strictly political and they were hoping for a plea deal.

              • hooson1st says:

                This is rank speculation on my part because I do not believe that the 2nd degree murder charge is warranted based on everything that is in public record, and it should not have been entered against GZ.

                The trajectory of this prosecution has been affected by the political winds, primarily racially-focused, that have swirled about it.

                The way these things work is that the State is not going to step into a case just to have it bottled up and closed a few weeks later. It looks like Corey made a series of poor decisions, including not going to the grand jury, as easy as that usually is. It seems that Corey et al were influenced by the narrative spun by Crump and Co. and promulgated by the Sharpton of the world.

                The average citizen has no idea of what happens when the bureaucratic machinery of a state gets engaged. We only get glimpses from time to time – the Jewell case, the Steven Hatfill/antrax case, the Duke/LaCrosse case. The George Zimmerman case is another one of these.

                However, the GZ case is a tragedy. A young unarmed man was killed by an older armed individual. These are tragedies, there are no winners. Some evidence exists, besides the damage to GZ’s face, that TM was not unfamiliar with use of hands as weapons. But that evidence is speculative and sketchy.

                There does not seem to be any evidence that was not covered by the SPD, that we know of that FDLE has uncovered. The key figure in this case enabling the filing of charges was witness #8. That doesn’t mean that witness #8 offered strong evidence justifying the charge. Rather, witness #8 offered cover.

                I don’t believe that witness #8 is a myth. However, I don’t know what to make of witness #8, We won’t know until she gets deposed by the defense (if that even ever happens).

                • hooson1st says:

                  btw – does anyone else have this problem. I type letters in, and when the comment is posted, some of them are missing?

                • howie says:

                  Don’t you think that the reason Corey was appointed was to avoid a grand jury in the first place? She has not made mistakes. Her actions are calculated and intentional. Also I think the Schemers were directing the state. Example: Sharpton gloating that Lester had followed his orders.

                  • hooson1st says:

                    Corey’s appointment was a way for the governor to “deal with” what was a lot of perceived political pressure and may have subtly influenced by the ongoing political campaign at the national level. I do not believe that they were so calculating as to put Corey in as a “puppet” to avoid the Grand Jury. The government does not work that way and individuals are not robots.

            • jello333 says:

              They’ve got 10 times as much evidence for manslaughter as they do for 2nd-degree murder. So let’s see exactly how much evidence that gives them.

              They’ve got ZERO evidence for 2nd-degree murder. So M2 = 0

              They’ve got 10x M2 evidence for manslaughter. Since M2 = 0, that means 10 x M2 = 0

              Oops…. looks like no manslaughter either. (and hooson… I’m messing with Corey et al, not you)

      • justfactsplz says:

        I was thinking along those same lines.

    • LetJusticePrevail says:

      In interviews of Alan Dershowitz, he said much the same about investigators of the Nicole Simpson/Ron Goldman murders. They were *convinced* they had the right man, so they even went so far as to rationalize the actual manufacture of evidence. They didn’t think it was wrong, or a “frame up”, because they honestly believed OJ was guilty. It was their willingness to do so, and the obvious corrupt nature of their investigation, that proved to be the downfall of the prosecution.

    • cajunkelly says:

      As I said in the other thread;
      I still want to know how traydmark got from wearing the khaki pants in the 7-11 video to having on blue jeans as reported in this link.

      • I’d need to double check and re-read, but I think it was only one officer that said that and I think he may have only seen the body from a distance. It was also the same officer that reported Trayvon’s hands were underneath his body IIRC. Forget his name.

        • AYALA, RICARDO Page 14 of 184 page discovery.

          “1 then noticed that there WRS, what nppcared to be a blnck malt wearing II grny sweater, blue jeans, and white/red snenl<ers IRying face down on the ground, Tht black male hnd his hRnds ulldernenth his booy. J attempted to got a response from the bJllci( male,but was met with negative results. At that time Sgt. Raimondo arrived and attempted to get R pulse on the black mnla but none Was found. At thnt time, Sgt. RalmDndo and 1 turned the black male ov~r And began CPR. Sgt. Raimondo did brenths nnd 1 did chest compressions."

        • cajunkelly says:

          check that link…IIRC it was the “first responder”…meaning up close and personal

          • cajunkelly says:

            correction;
            First officers to arrive…described him as having on blue jeans….scroll down one inch from the top at that link.

            • cajunkelly says:

              my question is;
              Officers are trained to note *details* at a crime scene. How does one mistake tan for blue?

              • What’s your theory? That Trayvon bothered to change his pants before going back to attack George? Seems like a pretty silly thing to do. After all, George might have gotten away while he was busy doing that. And why not drop off the skittles and tea while he was at it? Seriously. What possible reason would Trayvon have had to change his pants in the middle of all this?

                In the absence of further evidence I’m going to assume that Ayala either wasn’t as accurate as he could/should have been in his report, didn’t see clearly, or misremembered.

                • cajunkelly says:

                  I didn’t imply that I *have* a theory. Must one have a theory to ask questions about inconsistencies?
                  I don’t have a theory about why the dates on some of the documents today have a two thousand EIGHT date at the bottom, which would relect a fax date, either.
                  Do I need one?

            • jello333 says:

              My guess is that they’re just being generic. Like I call pretty much everything “Coke”, regardless of brand. Maybe they do the same with most pants… “jeans” (though I admit adding “blue” is unusual). But if not, if he really DID have blue jeans on at that point… WOW.

          • Not first, but he does say he attempted to get a response. Not sure if that means he yelled at him or got close and poked him with a stick.

  8. More 9th supplemental discovery just released.

  9. david says:

    FDLE report mentions a previously undisclosed 8 year old female witness who saw the entire thing and now magically Corey and company cant seem to find this witness

  10. david says:

    Per FDLE: Interesting …the party where George was working security and “lost his temper” only happened after George had been jumped by three people and had his jaw dislocated

    • david says:

      whoops…read it wrong please delete post admin

      • jello333 says:

        No, it still amounts to about the same thing: It was George’s friend who had that done to him, and George was mad about that, and the fact that the cops weren’t going after the guys who did it. Shows George is a VERY good light, if you ask me.

  11. david says:

    FDLE reports mention an August 3rd 2012 Dee dee interview. where is this discovery? Looks like Baldy is hiding evidence again even though he told nelson he handed it all over

    • John Galt says:

      BDLR will drop a smudged, crumpled report on the table right before West takes Dee Dee deposition. It will indicate that Dee Dee corrected all of the obvious blunders in her previous testimony in the August 3rd interview.

      • And he’ll claim that the smudged, crumpled report is his attempt to satisfy the defense’s unreasonable demand for a more legible copy of the burnt and shredded copy the state already gave the defense.

  12. diwataman says:

    Not sure what’s going on in Shellie’s case but it has now been continued to Jan 23.

    http://www.seminoleclerk.org/CriminalDocket/case_detail.jsp?CaseNo=592012CF001792A

    • allhail2 says:

      Theory only. Sh!t finally hits fan in GZ case, dismissed, immunity granted. Due to previous, Shellie’s case dismissed. No sense in wasting the court’s time with useless docket soundings etc.

    • anwtex says:

      hmmm wonder what they’re doin’.
      Jeff Weiner ‏@JeffWeinerOS
      George Zimmerman’s wife, *Shellie, granted* continuance in her perjury case. Next hearing now set for Jan. 23.

      6:42 AM – 5 Dec 12

    • jordan2222 says:

      Who signed the charging document in her case?

    • LetJusticePrevail says:

      Not sure who filed the motion for a continuance, but common sense says it was not the defense, since they currently have a motion to dismiss on the table. More likely, the state is stalling for time so they can figure out HOW to get Shellie recharged under the proper jurisdiction without screwing things up even further.

      • I was wondering about that. The conspiracy theory part of me is thinking that the State wants to keep the Shellie perjury charge on the books so they can claim that Shellie and George are both liars. If it goes to court and Shellie is found innocent, as I think she likely would be, then they can’t claim she lied to the court, and by extension, George never lied. Keeping the case open allows them to say George’s credibility is in question.

        • LetJusticePrevail says:

          I agree with what you say about the prosecution’s motives for initially charging Shellie. They used word games to lead her to answer certain questions in a certain way, knowing this would make it look like she lied. Once their little trap worked, they charged her with the two intentions. First, they wanted to (by association) damage George’s credibility and, second, to intimidate the defense and coerce George into some sort of plea bargain (to protect Shellie).

          Their first goal has already been achieved. George’s credibility was severely damaged, if only in the minds of the naive public. This will linger in the back of every potential juror’s mind, as well in the mind of any judge who hears the immunity motion. Nothing short of a complete exposure of their plot, and a complete exoneration of the perjury accusation can undue the effect of their scheme. And even that might not be enough, considering all of the other negative images that the scheme team managed to plant in the media.

          Their second goal, though, has already failed, whether they realize it or not. “Tugboat” George is in this for the “long haul”, and his determination is as steadfast as his love for Shellie. He knows that their true hope lies in his achievement of acquittal, or immunity itself. A plea bargain is simply unacceptable to him, or to Shellie, for that matter.

          Since the two cases are separate, we can only speculate as to what should be done. Obviously, each legal team has a responsibility to their own client, and will act accordingly. For Shellie, the motion to dismiss was a valid challenge to the prosecutor’s jurisdiction, but it is certain that the state will not take this lying down, unless their scheme is openly exposed. If the prosecutors who have the proper jurisdiction can be convinced that their cause is either fraudulent or unwinnable, they may simply refuse to continue the witch hunt.

      • jordan2222 says:

        Exactly.

      • howie says:

        Is there a link to the motion?

  13. partyof0 says:

    From the UK Guardian…
    “But Benjamin Crump, the lawyer representing Tracy Martin and Sybrina Fulton, the dead teenager’s parents, said he had offered numerous times to provide one of the key items O’Mara was complaining about, namely a clear recording of an interview with a teenage girl who claimed she was on the phone to Martin when the fatal confrontation took place.”

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/05/george-zimmerman-lawyer-trayvon-photo-release

    Can someone translate this for me?

  14. partyof0 says:

    And another “misdirection”…”slight of mouth” by Chump…from the McClatchyDC…

    Defense lawyers say the prosecution failed to issue a subpoena for the original recording, and the copy they have is unintelligible. Crump denied stalling, and said he offered to turn it over several times to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement.

    “The family can’t control the state’s case against George Zimmerman,” he said. “They are powerless. The only thing they can do is work on their foundation so that some good can come out of their personal holocaust, the loss of their son. They are not focused on anything negative or any distractions.”

    Read more here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2012/12/04/176381/zimmermans-lawyers-say-prosecutors.html#storylink=cpy

  15. cajunkelly says:

    George (Tugboat)
    I’m glad I listened to that recording of your friend talking about you re “losing your temper”.

    Tugboat is *perfect*. :)
    You hang in there. The truth is slowly coming out. It’s like pulling hens’ teeth, but it’s coming!

    You just do what your nickname implies….hang in there…

    Steady as she goes.

    (chuckle) I love the connection; we’re all “pullin for ya” Tugboat!

    • kathyca says:

      Indeed. I’ve known from pretty much the beginning that there was a lot more to this story. And I’ve believed from very early on that George was probably a stand-up guy, even though I don’t know him personally. And all of the verified statements from friends and neighbors and the writing between the lines of the bs fed to the public by Crump et al and the media have shown it in increasing measure day by day. I don’t know if George reads here, but I’m guessing that he does, or at least Robt Jr. does, so I want to tell him again, directly, that there are LOTS of people in his corner. And more and more every day that this farce is revealed for what it is. I’m pulling for you George…hard. And I tell everyone who will listen about the details so they will pull for you and be outraged for you, too. This same thing could happen to any of us any day. And I can guarantee that many of us, myself included, wouldn’t look as good as you do under a microsope. Keep Calm and Carry On. Praying for your continued strength. This nightmare is almost over. I’m sure of it.

    • Sharon says:

      I like that–”Tugboat….” That’s good. Tugboats can be highly under-estimated, because they are comparatively small compared to the mighty ships that must respond to their lead.

      George has done exactly what he needed to–just stood there and taken it–unable to fix it or help himself…dependent on others to get things done. But his way of standing there and taking it has been about pitch perfect considering the trauma and deception that he’s been dragged through.

      The visual that will always stay with me is that wide-eyed, stone-still facial expression that literally seems to say, “Here I stand. I cannot do otherwise.” (Yeah, it’s Martin Luther–completely different context….but that’s what it reminds me of. That look says “I’m not lying, I can’t control either events or liars…but here I am. Inside out.”)

      God bless you, George.

      When this is finally over, you and Shellie will have to find your way of moving on, your way of managing good things that will eventually come (I do believe)….there will lots of folks wanting to make money and reputation off that part of it, too, unfortunately!~…but just keep standing. Just keep standing. After all you’ve been through, nobody has the purchase price for your soul or your time or your plans.

      Tugboat it is…..

      • justfactsplz says:

        Sharon, that was a lovely post. I like the Tugboat name, too. George and Shellie are very strong people and they will continue to “stand” I know. They have great faith and are optimists. The God they believe in will safely bring them into a better life.

        • jello333 says:

          And if I’m not mistaken, his friend was talking about stuff from like 6 or 7 years ago. And even back then he was nicknamed “Tugboat”, because he would try to help people out when they were having problems, try to pull them out of trouble, etc. And assuming he didn’t acquire this nickname overnight, it means he probably had it since he was no older than 20 or so. A 20-yr-old who has a reputation of being someone who you can go to when you need help for your troubles? You know how RARE that is?

  16. Jake Cardigan says:

    I have been following the developments in the GZ case on this site for some time now.

    I seem to remember that the TM autopsy that was released made mention of a full toxicology report. However, no toxicology report was ever made public and I haven’t noticed anyone talking about it for months.

    Does anyone know if that has ever been revealed?
    Or if at least the defense was given a copy of it?

  17. Sentenza says:

    http://184.172.211.159/~gzdocs/documents/1112/discovery9/fdle_reports_april.pdf

    Haven’t seen this posted here yet. Look at page 8.

    No call detail records found for the time period requested.

    • eastern2western says:

      haha, basically there was never any call between martin and dd.
      well, trent sawyer is feeling really sad because his detective work will go to the trash.

      • Are we sure that the request was about the phone found at the scene? I wonder when the latest record was. Assuming it’s the phone found at the scene it could have been sitting out there for quite a while and be unrelated to the incident.

        • justfactsplz says:

          That’s right.

          • jello333 says:

            Ok, let’s say that heart phone wasn’t Trayvon’s, and had been lying there for days. Which means it was just a strange coincidence that the confrontation went down in the same area. And so that could be the phone that the report declared had “no records” available during that time period. Alright, I’m willing to go along with that. HOWEVER, if all that’s true, then it means they also analyzed, and got records for, ANOTHER phone, which was listed in the report as being Trayvon’s. I’m also fine with that… I really hope they DID get a bunch of records for it, and that MOM now has them.

            But then that leads to the big question: If the heart phone wasn’t Trayvon’s, how did his REAL phone wind up in the hands of the cops? I haven’t seen any reports or statements talking about the cops finding a 2nd phone (on his body or elsewhere), or about Tracy turning one over to them, or whatever. So… ?????

            • justfactsplz says:

              I believe they got his phone, the one in Miami, and investigated that phone also. And Yes, I do believe Mom surely has all of this information. It is just more missing discovery the prosecution is failing to hand over. in my opinion.

            • jordan2222 says:

              This entire mystery of the phones is crazy.

              • LetJusticePrevail says:

                I am SICK of thinking about the phone. At this point, discussing it without any further input seems like running in circles. BUT, since it is so important, we continue.

      • rooferx says:

        “Lee did not see anything of evidentiary value as it relates to this investigation.”
        Haha. Isn’t that what most people told that freak many months ago?

        • david says:

          I told that freak for months his videos were useless nonsense and all he could call me was a racist and a homophobe……even after I explain in detail to that moron what a flase cause fallacy is.

      • partyof0 says:

        Just watched this sh!t…someone pointed out that the camera angle at the pool would show a car driving along the the sidewalk to the west or a car driving along the bend in the street at the pool…and that this sherlock’s findings just gave George the recorded evidence he was looking for…

  18. david says:

    Seems like the tTrayvonites have hacked renee stutzmans twitter. Several of us GZ supportersare getting bizarre direct message tweets.

  19. griz1234 says:

    A post of mine at Click Orlando, in response to someone wondering why “SYG” didn’t apply to Trayvon.

    OK, this isn’t really complex.

    SYG isn’t relevant to Trayvon. He’s dead, and therefore isn’t being charged with beating Zimmerman.

    Folks are obviously confused by what’s been reported as to the events of that night, and very few have so much as read let alone tried to analyse the timeline, aerial photos, and rest of the evidence.

    The most important thing to remember is that Zimmerman is the defendant, and is presumed innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

    From the first bail hearing:

    “An investigator for a Florida prosecutor’s office testified on Friday morning that he has no additional evidence to show that George Zimmerman was the one who confronted Trayvon Martin on Feb. 26.”

    So, this investigator, Dale Gilbreath, swore under oath that they don’t have evidence to prove that Zimmerman started the fight.

    If you go and read the document Zimmerman was charged under, you’ll find this:

    “Zimmerman confronted Martin and a struggle ensued.”

    Note the wording. Note the passive voice.

    “A struggle ensued.”

    They can’t even prove that Zimmerman started a FIST-FIGHT, and they charged him with Murder 2.

    Gee, I wonder why a even liberal anti-gun freak like Alan Dershowitz called the charging of Zimmerman “irresponsible and unethical” and said “No Jury Would Convict Zimmerman Of Murder Unless Afraid ‘New Black Panthers Might Kill Them’”

    I suspect many of us think Zimmerman isn’t the brightest guy in the world, and no doubt if he had the ability to go back he’d just have kept driving to Target… But that doesn’t make him guilty of Murder 2, or any other crime for that matter.

    The evidence shows that Trayvon attacked and beat Zimmerman, and when Zimmerman became fearful for his own life he defended himself. A tragic event, and like many tragedies many things could have happened differently to prevent it. Yes, Zimmerman could have stayed in his vehicle… Yes, Trayvon’s parents could have raised him better or not left him unsupervised.

    But the bottom line is that the actual violent, criminal behavior that was the root cause of Trayvon’s death is Trayvon’s decision to assault Zimmerman.

    • howie says:

      This is why Lester collaborated with Corey to set up Shellie. It is the real reason he was booted off the case by district. The fix was in. The arrest of Shellie slowed the process for the defense. I have not yet seen anything on her case. John Guy is the persecutor. These lawyers are at risk as is Lester it seems to me. What a tangled web.

      • Sentenza says:

        Isn’t it interesting how she’s asked about her assets, but yet gets in trouble for “lying” about “other people’s money?”

    • howie says:

      But also he never defended himself until T-con saw and went for his gun. It T-con had gotten it Zimmerman would now be dead. This is why the state had to stop the grand jury from convening. Wolfinger was going to present the charge from Serino of unecessary killing while preventing a felony. The felony was the attack by T-con. If T-con was a felon then there could be no civil action by Crump.

    • justfactsplz says:

      I have been enjoying reading your posts over there. Those people on that particular thread are real nutjobs.

  20. david says:

    Funny how every time Crump gets caught he refers to it as a distraction

  21. This is a link “James F” posted in yesterday’s open thread. It’s an attempt to transcribe Crump’s interview with Dee Dee. If it’s even close to accurate then Crump will have some explaining to do.

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1iHSrnGPs4Qptsla_EMMR-NdhioDTHQAtAExH1OgackU/edit?pli=1

    http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/12/04/12-4-george-zimmerman-case-open-discussion-thread/#comment-255426

  22. david says:

    As the prosecutions case against George continues to flop the butthurt morons who feed at letherheads trough of ignorance seem to be putting more and more faith into their useless white house petition

    • jello333 says:

      You would think that for any petition to be allowed on the official White House site, it would AT A MINIMUM have to be truthful… wouldn’t you? But that thing is filled with a bunch of laughable garbage (which makes the signers look really, really dumb). Examples:

      “went on an illegal patrol”

      “followed in the darkness and when he caught him he questioned and killed him”

      “His only reason given for his erroneous beliefs was that the child was black and did not belong in the neighborhood.”

      “defend himself with claims of ‘stand your ground’ ”

      “Evidence that Martin never touched Zimmerman at all.”

      Plus it uses the word “child” 4 or 5 times

      Seriously? This sounds like it was written by a 10-yr-old. And over 800 people are dumb enough to have signed this thing? Mmm mmm mmm….

      • Justice4All says:

        Only 600 have signed their petition the rest of the signatures are fakes from zimbots who have registered multiple email addresses.

        Pathetic when you think how desperate they have become that they would do this just so they can say their petition had “—” more signatures than Georges. Equally pathetic as them spamming twitter and the comments on every article posted about the case with their hatred.

        • justfactsplz says:

          I don’t read Leatherman but Mung made a comment on Click Orlando telling what they have been up to including wishing they could slap me in the head. I guess the truth is more than they can handle like an adult.

          • Justice4All says:

            Stupid petition does not even require any personal information in order to sign.

            I guarantee you that BigBoi has signed that thing at least 20 times. Pathetic!!!!

    • justfactsplz says:

      One poster on Click Orlando is posting over and over again trying to get people to sign “Obama’s” petition. Gee.

  23. diwataman says:

    “There might be riots”

    Miami-Dade County Community Relations Board launching propaganda machine using the twin pillars of knowledge and communication in daily TV shows to sway public opinion against George and taint jury pool;

    http://www.local10.com/news/Miami-Dade-County-leaders-meet-over-George-Zimmerman-trial/-/1717324/17650068/-/433mebz/-/index.html

    • jordan2222 says:

      Comments;

      Pretty freakin’ sad when your local government feels that they have to pre-emptively beg tens of thousands of people not to burn their own city down because they might not like something.Unfortunately, the past speaks for itself when it comes
      ============================
      I still don’t understand why someone in their right mind would want to burn down their own neighborhood. It’s STUPID, plain and simple!!! If you destroy your own place you call home, don’t come to me asking for help.

    • jello333 says:

      “a stand your ground hearing, based on Florida law that allows someone to shoot to kill if they feel their life is in danger”

      Why are people so stupid?! I mean, sure not everyone has heard of “stand your ground”, and even if they have, they may not be aware that it’s not relevant to this case. But that’s not my point. My point is this: I would like to assume that if you asked ANYONE if they were legally permitted to “shoot to kill if they feel their life is in danger”, virtually all of them would say YES. Forget about “stand your ground”; just think about everyday, common self-defense. So what are these idiots’ problem?

      • jordan2222 says:

        “Why are people so stupid?” They are NOT stupid. They know very well what they are doing. This article was created to bring about exactly the opposite result of what it implies.

  24. Ad rem says:

    Attention: HUGH STONE….alias Gil Favor, Jaws Jaworski, Sausage Boy, Bill Palmer, and Sol Horowitz. SOCKPUPPET MUCH? Just what is it about us that you find so compelling? BTW…You were repeatedly warned to clean up your act….not to mention the obscene videos. Now be a good boy and haunt some other website.

  25. rumpole2 says:

    Can I post this now?

    Photobucket

    (Sure….I even found you a bigger one! :-D )

    • boutis says:

      “There is a flaw in the state laws, which does not address the programmed psychological judgement of the arms bearer. It gives too much authority and right to untrained citizens who may live in fear on a daily basis, the right to make an assumed judgement on individuals deemed a threat to them. It allows the use of deadly force with a weapon against unarmed citizens.”
      This is popping up all over with the Progressives (I think of them as a warped authoritarians). The right to bear arms and exercise the right to self defense inversely means one has to bear more physical abuse to the point of death or something. Certain persons will not be allowed to feel fear because they do not find it politically correct. If anyone is attacked and defended them self with a stick they would want special rules for sticks or rocks or shovels whatever someone uses to fend off an assault. It is nuts.

    • eastern2western says:

      If I remeber my political science right, an amendment requires approval from 2/3 of the states. Being that the 2nd amendment gives americans the right to bare arms, these types of gun laws are just modifications of the second second amendment. Who ever posted this petition truly needs to go back to high school or take political science for dummies.

    • eastern2western says:

      this petition is really stupid and I can not believe how laughably stupid it is.

    • eastern2western says:

      hard for me to believe there are 200 plus people signed up for the petition which means these people are morons.

      • Justice4All says:

        If you have no life and are obsessed with this case you could always set up 20 email accounts and sign George’s petition 20 times like BigBoi and all of the other traybots have for their petition..

        • eastern2western says:

          But, the petition is probably written by some retard who slept through the political science courses because it makes no sense at all. The federal government has no jurisdiction in the affairs of the state governments. The author is suggesting the federal government to step in and abolish all syg laws that are approved by the local voters which is lawfully impossible. Does the author even know how the american legal system works?

      • rumpole2 says:

        There are a LOT of morons about.

        52% of voters picked Obama.

  26. arkansasmimi says:

    Robert Zimmerman Jr‏@rzimmermanjr 4 min
    “For whatever reason, I have to fight tooth and nail to get what I want. The more discovery I get, the better” – MO’M http://tinyurl.com/bjfwmyp

    • justfactsplz says:

      How true. The more discovery that is released, the more it exonerates George. I can hardly wait to see what will happen at the next hearing, especially if Crump has not produced the original tape of Dee Dee along with the recording device.

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