11-30 George Zimmerman Case – Open Discussion Thread

Use this thread as an open thread just for Zimmerman Case stuff. A place to just dump, collect, or discuss general information about the Trayvon Martin VS George Zimmerman Case.

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239 Responses to 11-30 George Zimmerman Case – Open Discussion Thread

  1. arkansasmimi says:

    Wow its hard to believe that today is the Last Day of November! This year has went by incredibally fast! Keep the Faith George and Shellie. Hoping you are able to find some peace and comfort each day.
    FIFY–Admin ;)

  2. ytz4mee says:

    I don’t know the real facts of the Jordan Davis shooting, so I will refrain on commenting except for the media response.

    Apparently the father of Jordan Davis is good friends with a local news reporter. They are already doing their very best to Zimm the alleged shooter, Michael Dunn, by digging into his personal Facebook page and posting he “liked” “extreme” sites, and posted a quote from Judge Napolitano about limited government, and digging up as much unsubstantiated “dirt” on him as they can sling. It begins anew.


    • cajunkelly says:

      And this, my fine Treeper friends, is a perfect example of why to NEVER create a Facebook page in your real name.

      Remember doxing?

    • Knuckledraggingwino says:

      I don’t know the facts either.

      However; it s not disputed that complaining about the loud music provoked a verbal confrontation.
      Did that verbal confrontation escalate to threats of physical violence?
      Was there a threat by the multiple people in the shootee’s vehicle to physically assault
      Dunn? Ifso, this is a gross disparity of physical force that could cause an assault to become lethal.
      Were there weapons in the shootee’s vehicle? Weapons are not limited to firearms and can include knives, clubs, metal bars and tire irons.

      • diwataman says:

        “Attorney Robin Lemonidis said for the first time Tuesday that the teens threatened to kill 45-year-old Michael Dunn and one of them flashed a shotgun after they allegedly got upset that Dunn asked them to turn down their music.”

        • ytz4mee says:

          I found this statement in the “First Coast” piece “timeline” interesting:
          First Coast News staffers said it was obvious by the crime scene that the circumstances were unique.

          What does that mean? “the circumstances were unique” ???
          No elaboration or explanation given.

          Also, there are reports that the vehicle with the teens drove away, and then returned to the scene.

          If so, that would give them plenty of time to pitch a weapon.

      • ottawa925 says:

        Wino … here’s what I know from Jane Velez Mitchell who interviewed the guys attorney. He and girlfriend had just come from his son’s wedding. At the wedding, all the guy had was a sip of champaign to toast. After wedding they went to gas station to pick up a bottle of wine. Apparently, they also had just acquired a puppy which was at the hotel they were staying at and they decided they were going to end the evening having a few glasses of wine before retiring for bed. When the girlfriend went in the gas station to get the wine, the vehicle containing the black males was playing music in the car very loud. The vehicle had very dark tinted windows and it was only when someone lowered the back passenger window that he could see they were black … at which point the barrel of a shotgun came up to be seen on the top of the window that had been lowered. That’s when the guy, who was VERY handy with a gun (all sorts of clubs and associations) opened fire. His grandparents gave him his first rifle at 3 … so he knew how to handle one. Jane Velez asked da guy’s attorney point blank why police had found no gun in the victim’s car. She, the attorney, herself could not say, however, it is FACT both vehicles left the scene. The victims car left the scene for about 15 min. and then returned to the gas station. Da guy … just left totally. It wasn’t till he saw that this person died on TV that either he notified police, or they found him at the hotel. Da guy was not from the area … again … no doubt to come in for his son’s wedding. It’s not hard for me to believe that the car with the black males drove away in order to get rid of the shotgun or anything else they had in the car.

        • ottawa925 says:

          btw, the female attorney for da guy is just awful. She acted like a crazy woman. He needs better representation than this woman.

        • ytz4mee says:

          car with the black males drove away in order to get rid of the shotgun or anything else they had in the car.

          car owned by a black male adult on probation …. drove away…. anything else they had in the car…
          Yep. drugs? weapons? stolen property? Stornes was already on probation for B&E of cars and possession of stolen property.

          If everything was on the up-and-up and this was just about “loud music”, why did they take off?

        • I’d recommend this guy to anybody arrested & charged with a firearms related criminal offense. > Jon H. Gutmacher is a criminal defense attorney, NRA certified firearms instructor, and noted author/columnist with over thirty years of criminal trial experience who is also considered the premier legal authority on Florida gun laws and self defense issues, as well as an authority on Federal firearm and weapon laws, and BATF regulatory issues. He actively practices criminal law in the Orlando/Central Florida, area, as well as handling BATF licensing and regulatory issues for FFLs across the State. He is a former FFL, former felony prosecutor and police legal advisor who has been featured on national radio and television shows including Nightline. He is also an NRA Certified Firearms Instructor, Refuse to be a Victim Instructor, and his book, “Florida Firearms – Law, Use & Ownership” is hailed by many as the “bible” on Florida and Federal firearms, weapons, and self defense laws. His legal website is located at http://www.FloridaFirearmsLaw.com

    • diwataman says:

      I don’t get it. He was charged the next day so how is this news? Wasn’t that the big deal in the Martin case? That he wasn’t immediately charged?

      I don’t see in that article the stuff on Facebook and such.

      • ytz4mee says:

        Another Treeper posted a video link from local news affiliate Channel 4, which mentions Dunn’s “extremist” views and Facebook postings:

        There are also indications on the page of Dunn’s political views, what some might call anti-government. In his “favorite quotes” section of his personal profile page, one quote is from Judge Andrews Napolitano from Lies the Government Told You. It reads:…

        They are already setting up the narrative. “Facts” don’t matter.
        And making sure they publicize the names of ALL his relatives, including the maiden new of his new daughter-in-law. Why don’t they just publish a map to these people’s houses, and hawk pitchforks and tar out of street carts?

    • nameofthepen says:

      ytz4mee says: “They are already doing their very best to Zimm the alleged shooter,”

      “Zimm the alleged shooter”. Nice wordsmithing!

    • ftsk420 says:

      I think I may actually be related to this Michael Dunn. I need to contact my great uncle to confirm.

  3. James F says:

    Attention MODS
    Could you please post this photo of Sybrina cheek to cheek with Michelle Obama. I don’t think it has ever been published in any major media and I think it deserves more attention.


    • pbunyan says:

      My eyes! It burns! The goggles, they do nothing!

    • metrometeor says:


    • nameofthepen says:

      A walk down memory lane. Posted in 2007:
      “Michelle Obama Plays the Race Card”

    • James F says:

      It is disgusting to see how the most powerful couple in the nation have already prejudged George as guilty and Martin as not only innocent, but a martyr. They have embraced the Martin’s and Fulton’s as the new face of racial injustice for the new millennium.

      This is why the DOJ will never pursue justice for the outing of federal Air Marshall by Frances Robles. This is why the FBI will never close their investigation of Zimmerman and officially admit that there is absolutely no evidence of him being racist. This is why George faces an uphill court battle that will cost millions and will go on for years.

    • yankeeintx says:

      That is not Michelle Obama, that is a female impersonator…oh, wait a minute?

  4. diwataman says:

    “he[Jordan Russell Davis] was described as a very bright student by his teacher Carolyn Aponte, who moved him into an advanced reading class when he was in 10th grade”

    Hmmm, interesting, seemed Jordan Russell Davis on his facebook page “Liked” a page titled “F*** Books”, seems rather odd for an advanced reader to do don’t ya think?

    And of the choice of photo’s I noticed the media chose not to show this one, perhaps a bit scurry looking for them;


    See, two can play at this game;

    • diwataman says:

      “…Teachers at Wolfson High say Jordan was initially a bit rebellious in class. He was in an intensive reading class for not passing the FCAT…”

      • rooferx says:

        Wow, look at the comments. Do they look familiar??? “child” “unarmed” “murdered” “going away for life”.
        I don’t know much about the case, but some ‘people’, and how they jump to conclusions so quickly is just plain stupid and ignorant.

        • ytz4mee says:

          Yep. It’s the same template, even down to the meme that Davis was an academic
          scholar. “Facts” don’t matter.

          • diwataman says:

            I just did a twitter search of “Jordan Davis” and it’s all too familiar. All that matters is the Davis was black, shot and killed by a non black. Those are the only facts needed. Oh, and the “loud music” has taken the place of “the hoodie”.

            I’m still trying to figure out how many people were in the car and who they were. This report says;

            “Sgt. Paul said four other occupants in the SUV were also juveniles.”

            But we now know that isn’t true as Tommie Stornes was one of them and he’s not a juvenile.

            I’m also seeing comments that the SUV drove away and came back to the gas station but I can’t find any reports on that yet.

            I hope the gas station had working cameras on this.

            • ytz4mee says:

              Yes – there were initial reports that the SUV left the gas station, and then returned. Whether or not that is accurate remains to be seen.

              If the occupants of the SUV didn’t have anything to hide, then why did they flee?
              If true, it makes any evidence collected at the “crime scene” tainted.
              There is more to this story than the media is telling. Already, too much mis- and conflicting information.

              FWIW, given the political climate in Corey’s Duval County, I can understand why Dunn wouldn’t want to stick around either. He was wise to retain an attorney not from the local area and “network”.

            • ytz4mee says:

              DW, the truth is starting to seep out in dribs and drabs. Initial reports said 4 occupants in the SUV, now it was 5? Not all were juveniles as reported, at least one was a legal adult on probation, who was injured. And then this tidbit:

              Paul said four other occupants in the SUV were also juveniles. They were not injured, but taken into custody for questioning and would be released to their parents.

              Um, why would the alleged “victims” of a shooting be “taken into custody” ?
              If I’m sitting in my car with the radio on, and some deranged lunatic comes over and is belligerent and for no reason, empties his clip into my car,(as alleged by the race-baiters) I do expect to be questioned but I do not expect to be “taken into custody”. I also do not flee the scene if there are injured people in the vehicles.

              Something is very, very fishy with this story.

            • jello333 says:

              Idiots on Twitter had no problem adopting this guy into their racist grief family. Lots of garbage from Bigboi and others the past couple days like, “We will never forget you, Trayvon and Jordan.” And better yet, “Got my hoodie on, and playing my music as loud as I can.” These people are just scum. I mean, no I don’t know the facts of this Jordan case, and it may turn out he WAS an innocent victim, and that the shooter should be imprisoned. But that’s not my point. My point is that Bigboi and people like her made him out to be the victim and the shooter to be the villain RIGHT FROM THE START. And the reason for that is that they are racists. Period.

              • ftsk420 says:

                I agree. I don’t know much of the facts either but something tells me this kid isn’t completely innocent. Could be a case of he was hanging with the wrong people.

              • ytz4mee says:

                Yes … the whole jump to establish the narrative, to create a media “story” about the alleged victim and to demonize the chosen “perp” …. it’s sickening. Like I said, I don’t know the facts … and certainly don’t trust the “facts” as laid out by the Legacy Media … the abuse of the principles of an impartial Justice system angers me.

  5. raiikun says:

    Wow…there is a comment by Patricia on the Leathernan blog that is so sickening and depraved that I don’t think it should be even repeated to show how sick it is.

    I am convinced those people are evil now.

  6. dalec911 says:

    I’m sure we will be hearing a lot about this case, especially since every news source has to compare it to Georges case. In a lot of the comments I read, these people in other states bash the state of Florida and our SYG law. Wonderful, I hope they never come down here to visit. ;-)

    • ytz4mee says:

      The Florida Department of Corrections confirmed to First Coast News that Stornes is still on active supervision, and that he has a curfew from 7 p.m. to 7 a.m.

      Ahhh…. so, if Stornes had not been in violation of the terms of his parole, this “never would have happened”.

      Stornes should never have gotten into his vehicle.
      He should have been at home.

    • selfdefenseadvocate says:

      Another one of those “innocent children”. Another child that could have been the son of Obama.

      • ytz4mee says:

        I do feel sorry for the Davis Mom. At this point, she isn’t beating the race baiting drum, and just is reacting how any grieving parent would. I honestly believe that she tried to raise her son the right way, and the pain she must be experiencing is overwhelming. I am curious as to why he was sent to live with his Dad – the school stated he was rebellious when he first showed up – perhaps he was “too much to handle” for her – much like Traydemark was sent to be with his Dad because Trashcan Momma couldn’t handle him anymore.

      • selfdefenseadvocate says:

        I was referring to D-Man’s link/mug shot of Stornes. I should have said that. I often forget how fast this board moves!

    • Hugh Stone says:

      The witnesses don’t want to talk? Non-cooperation sounds like they are hiding something.

  7. 500 murders in Chicago in 2012, but the left is all excited that there is another white-on-black shooting in Florida.



  8. Justice4All says:

    Black man kills white man with one single punch in Las Vegas for following him out of the restroom.

    • ytz4mee says:

      One to four years is not enough time for this murder.
      Hawkins again proves he was not “unarmed” – fists are weapons.

      • jello333 says:

        Definitely not enough time, and I bet he doesn’t even get the max. Even IF the other dude “touched” him a couple times, and even IF he was making racist comments, you can NOT use that as an excuse to punch the guy in the face as hard as you can. Maybe turn around and scream at him, or give him a little shove, or something… but NOT throw what amounts to a full-force sucker punch. Nope. Should have been charged with plain old “manslaughter” without the “involuntary” added.

      • nameofthepen says:

        ytz4mee says: “One to four years is not enough time for this murder.”

        Prosecutor Maria Lavell said during cross examination that Hawkins’ testimony was filled with more detail than what he told investigators hours after the incident. Lavell said Hawkins never told detectives Massie touched him three times.

        Immediately after the incident, Hawkins told a casino security guard that Massie was trash-talking and used a racial slur, according to testimony.

        However, Hawkins testified he did not recall Massie using a racial slur.

        Hawkins explained he was an emotional mess when interrogated by detectives. He said he was crying, nervous and scared and left some details out.


        I seem to remember another man whose post-homicide story remained consistent, yet he is being subjected to a world-wide, media-fueled, life-threatening, lynch-mob mentality.

        Oooops! Never mind. Not the same thing at all. That other one is a “White Hispanic”, so of course he’s guilty.

        Silly me. :roll:

    • Sharon says:

      Should the white man have stayed in the stall? Or better yet, stayed out of the bathroom all together. He would probably be alive today if he hadn’t gone in the bathroom.

  9. Hugh Stone says:

    Good old article for some who have never read it.
    “From seeking justice to obstruction of justice”


    • ytz4mee says:

      The comments, especially from other trial lawyers, was interesting.

    • nameofthepen says:

      Hugh Stone says: “Good old article… http://legalinsurrection.com/2012/04/from-seeking-justice-to-obstruction-of-justice/

      Hugh, that was a good article. Written less than a week after the shooting. And LOVED the comments posted on it. Thanks. An interesting read. :)

      • jordan2222 says:

        Lots of obstruction of justice in this case.

        How on earth did Tracy get a pass for withholding the PIN? That makes no sense whatsoever.

        • nameofthepen says:

          jordan2222 says: “Lots of obstruction of justice…How on earth did Tracy get a pass for withholding the PIN?…”

          Jordan, good (rhetorical) question! I’m outraged and baffled, too.

          But, personally, I suspect the appalling rogue behavior in this case by these Florida politicians and their minions is some sudden, unique divergence from their S.O.P.

          I think maybe it’s just the first time in our lifetimes we’ve truly put on “citizen hats” and actually kept an eye on our employees’ behavior.

          Just sayin’… ;)

  10. david says:

    Another sample of Nasty Nat’s professionalism on twitter in regard to the thankyou cards! Natalie Jackson ‏@NatJackEsq
    Nope…I will not comment. I would rather drink poison then help those (fill in the blank) get publicity for fundraising purposes.

    • ytz4mee says:

      The fact that their own pathetic fundraising efforts have stalled completely must infuriate her almost as much as being deemed the Queen of the “Scheme Team”.

      GZ would have raised a lot more money had he hired someone who was actually interested in mounting a vigorous defense instead of continually apologizing to the race-baiters. Donations dried up, not because of lack of empathy for GZ, but because of MOM.

      • jordan2222 says:

        I agree with that. When MOM got involved, that ended donations for me and a couple of friends.

        I do not know who is writing the new stuff at the GZ legal site, but it’s good and should have been done long ago. It sounds like the kind of thing his brother, Robert, would write. Maybe it will help with donations now but I am still baffled as to why he is not taking “free money” from the state since he is clearly indigent. That, too, might affect donations.

    • jello333 says:

      Not too many years ago, that “person” would have been disbarred for the garbage she spews. Crump too, but Jackson is even worse I think.

  11. david says:

    Now that the false narrative is in full blown collapse mode i expect we will see an escalation in ” The Martin’s/Fulton’s are not on trial so what they said and did doesn’t matter”

  12. nameofthepen says:

    Phew! Here we go again.

    And, again.

    And again and again and again and again.

    Who remembers crazy old Charlie Manson and his “Helter Skelter” race-war prophesy?


    • Sharon says:

      Remember him!? We lived about 10 miles from him, just over the mountains from where he slaughtered his victims. Skeered we were.

      • nameofthepen says:

        Sharon says: “We lived about 10 miles from him, just over the mountains…”

        Get outta town! Are you kidding? We were practically neighbors. I was living in West Hollywood at the time! :shock:

        • Sharon says:

          We were in North Hollywood…during my first pregnancy, I was working temp secretarial and worked on Hollywood Blvd at some wannabe producer’s offices for awhile. I wanta tell you, THAT was completely weird for the Montana farm girl. I was functioning as his personal secretary in my temp assignment, but was also visibly pregnant in my cute two piece maternity outfits…and it was weird to see the starlets buzzing in and out of his office (usually “doors open” buzzing) and I would be called in to take dictation while one of them was giving him a back rub as he sat as his desk.

          Like I say, thoroughly wannabe….ick. We rented a house in Van Nuys for awhile, before we bought a home in Canyon Country and starting moving north as fast as we could…unfortunately DH still had to drive into LA for his heavy diesel work eventually, when the job market collapsed….so all in all….it was alot of coping, not so much living high in California.

          • Arkindole says:

            Woa…now, that is way beyond weird. We rented on Martha street right behind the Lumbar City in Van Nuys between 82 and summer 83.. Had to go over Mulholland drive for two years to work. The only place we went to was the Ralph’s on Van Nuys Blvd (in daylight). Absolute hell.

            • Sharon says:

              We rented a little tiny house and then a bigger one on Haynes Street, just down the street from the Von’s on VN Blvd. We bought the Canyon Country house about ’74, so had gotten out before things started falling through the ground. We were about 3 blocks north of the library. Weird! Like you say….

            • nameofthepen says:

              Arkindole says: “We rented on Martha street right behind the Lumbar City in Van Nuys between 82 and summer 83…”

              Arkindole, do you have the “California T-shirt”? You know, the one that says on the front,


              and on the back,

              California – not for wimps!


              • Arkindole says:

                Naw…I couldn’t afford t-shirts while i was there. I seem to remember the rent for that 1940’s 2/1 craftsman was about $950 with no utilities. I did sleep through an earthquake one night (thought the dog jumped on the water bed) that ripped up Northridge. And, they did have some pretty nasty mud slides when that first recognized el Nino thing started. I thought for a long time that when KTLA talked about the middle east that they were referring to Burbank Blvd. I was finally able to escape that ghetto to ground zero in FL. Nothing like hearing the water sucked out of the sink p-traps and toilets as the eye passes overhead–seriously. Every year about this time I really miss the hurricane season and putting up panels every two weeks….**sigh**

                • nameofthepen says:

                  Arkindole – LMAO! Funniest post of the day, IMHO! :lol:

                  SoCal “inside jokes”, and I totally got every one of them. :D

                  I’ve lived for a while in Houston too, so I could even relate to the hurricane part.

                  You write very well!

          • nameofthepen says:

            Sharon, wow. Not so many “degrees of separation” as we think, even on the vast internet.

            Hollyweird. Full of “Wannabe producers”, “wannabe actors”, hustlers, porn industry personnel, tragic runaways, and other human flotsam and jetsam.

            Are you still out in Canyon Country, Sharon?

            • Sharon says:

              No–we’re in Oregon as of August 2011–after spending 18 years in MN! So we’ve been everywhere, man, we’ve been everywhere—crossed the deserts bare, man–we’ve been everywhere.

              Long story–all tied to family… :)

              • nameofthepen says:

                Sharon says: “No–we’re in Oregon as of August 2011…”

                Oh, hey…that sounds great! Hope you’re happy there. I like Oregon. It’s like “California Lite”, lol. :D

                • Sharon says:

                  You take that back! In terms of some of the good things, maybe….but in memory, I find that nothing that makes me want even California lite! We feel so at home here (being MN/MT farm-kid transplants). I never felt at home in CA, after being there for 28 years. Maybe that’s a personal problem and I free acknowledge such if it is! We live in the middle of a agricultural region, beautiful rivers, four or five seasons, including everyone we’ve ever enjoyed anywhere, low humidity in summer, just a constant feast for the eyes and heart—and we’re surrounded by people from ND and MN and MT! It would have been far too risky to come here straight from California, though! They would have thought we were real Californians!! (the outstates aren’t crazy about them…..those who want to Califoranize their new home state)….we never were Californians even though it was our address for 28 yrs.

                  • nameofthepen says:

                    Sharon says: “You take that back!”

                    LMAO! I take it back! I take it back! Wuz’ just trollin’ ya. :D

                    That was a beautiful description of your surroundings. I’m so happy to hear that your “context” now is so harmonious, Sharon. Sounds like you cashed in some saved-up good karma, girl. :)

      • ftsk420 says:

        Wow that’s crazy. My mom was followed one night by David Berkowitz

          • ftsk420 says:

            Yup for real

            • dmoseylou says:

              Well? What happened? When did she realize it was him?

              • ftsk420 says:

                She didn’t realize it was him till he was caught and admitted to the cops where he was. She told me that she was driving down Deer Park Ave and was followed by a car I can’t remember if she said it was brown or yellow she had what we called freaky psychic powers where she could tell something wasn’t right I guess you could say a gut feeling. She said she knew something was wrong with the car following her she was pregnant at the time she never stopped the car. When she watched the news Berkowitz told the police where he was looking for his next victim which was exactly where my mother was and the car he was driving was the same. I wish she was still alive so I could talk to her about it I know there are things I’m leaving out and she told this to me about 15 years ago.

  13. ytz4mee says:

    There have been 92 homicides in Jacksonville, FL so far this year.

    In November alone, there were several incidents of people being shot while in their vehicles while allegedly doing nothing to provoke the attack.

    Out of those November 2012 homicides,

    only ONE case attracted media attention,
    only in ONE case did the victim’s family lawyer up,
    only in ONE case did the family print up T-shirts and a “Justice” facebook page was set up,
    only in ONE case did the victim’s family advise the media they would seek to overturn FL’s SYG laws and set up a “Foundation” ….


    What sets this tragic incident apart from all the other shooting deaths that took place in Jacksonville, FL during the month of November?

    Such a mystery.


  14. boutis says:

    Has the update on GZLegal been posted? There are two new ones to my knowledge. November 30th. “On November 30, the defense team filed the following MOTION TO COMPEL PRODUCTION OF EVIDENCE FROM THIRD-PARTY, which asks the Court to issue its order to attorney Benjamin Crump directing Mr. Crump to produce the original recording and the original recording device used in the telephone interview of Witness 8 on or about March 19, 2012 and surrender same, without alteration, to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement.” The motion has a link.

    November 29th address the nasty story by what’s her name regarding “selling autographs”. A polite explanation is made that someone like her would not understand the concept of Thank You cards. This post ends with “George has been the target of a coordinated public relations attack designed to create the false impression that George shot Trayvon Martin because of racial bias, instead of self-defense — a public relations campaign perpetrated with the intent to manipulate the media and prejudice the citizens of this country against George through misinformation and emotional appeals. If a voice is raised with concern over profiteering, it should be tempered by two premises. Firstly, George and his family have been devastated by this event and left broke and displaced from their homes. That is a tragedy that should not be visited upon anyone who has yet to be convicted of a crime. It is the ultimate injustice when it is perpetrated on an innocent man. Secondly, if profiteering is a concern, that analysis should begin with those who crafted the misinformation blitz and racially charged rhetoric, shouted with reckless disregard for the truth, the result of which has been significant financial gain, not ruin. We speak not of the Martin family, who have suffered the tragedy of losing a son; we speak of the family’s handlers and attorneys.” Good stuff.

    • boutis says:

      Witness number 8 (DeeDee) is over 18 and her age was edited out. The motion is VERY interesting.

      • ftsk420 says:

        So another lie from Crump. Her being 18 changes everything.

      • hooson1st says:

        This is a masterful motion to compel from West.

        It leaves nothing unsaid and lays out, not Crump’s struggle with elocution, but Crump’s struggle with keeping his story straight.

        • ytz4mee says:

          Exactly. Crump’s refusal to cooperate with the very clear terms of Judge Nelson’s order is damning. The list of witnesses came not from Crump, as directed by Judge Nelson, but from BLDLR in some type of childish legal version of “telephone”. Does Crump honestly think that by not providing the information directly he insulates himself?

          The games being played, especially with exculpatory information … the Scheme Team and their enablers Corey and BLDR are more moronic than I first gave them credit for.

        • jordan2222 says:

          Does anyone know what Nelson’s order was? To whom, specifically, was Crump ordered to turn over the list? I have never been clear about that.

          • jordan2222 says:


            Does anyone know what Nelson’s order SAID?

            • jello333 says:

              I never saw a written order. Only thing I saw is what she verbally told Crump in court. And I don’t think she specifically said that SHE wanted a copy of whatever… I think she mainly said that Crump needed to hand the list over the MOM/West. (I could be wrong.)

        • jordan2222 says:

          Masterful? There must be a better stronger word. It is beyond masterful.

          • hooson1st says:


            You may be right, but I have to leave some adjectives to apply to what Mr. West may provide in the future.

        • jello333 says:

          And on a different discovery issue, but regarding the motion for the school records. A couple days ago, people here were complaining that it took MOM/West so long (about a month) to actually file the motion with the judge. Well, I think it took so long because they were going into such minute details about not only exactly what they wanted, but exactly WHY they wanted it. Lay it all out, in very specific detail, so that the judge has NO wiggle room to deny any part of it. I think that’s smart.

          • jordan2222 says:

            No judge could deny this motion. In fact, it screams out for consequences greater than sanctions. If this is not obstruction of justice, then what is? The State has clearly intentionally tried to deny George his right to a fair trial. There is NO WAY that ALL of this could have been accidental or innocent oversight. This was done by design and with a unmistakable criminal motive. Notice what West says on page 8 about a more specific demand in a separate motion for even more discovery. There is no way to spin this.

            I love the smell of cooked goose.

            kathyca: Please chime in on this dialogue with jello and me.

            • jello333 says:

              “Notice what West says on page 8 about a more specific demand in a separate motion for even more discovery.”

              Yep, definitely noticed that… and I like it. This is gonna get REAL hairy for the conspirators. Let’s just hope MOM and West push it where it needs to go: Demanding sanctions… CRIMINAL sanctions against various individuals. I think, I HOPE, it’s slowly moving in that direction.

              • jordan2222 says:

                What West does NOT say in the motion will be a lot worse. Sharon made an excellent post about that. It is not hard to read between the lines.

                Where is SD on all of this? Has he commented other than to start a new thread? I have not looked at it yet.

      • jordan2222 says:

        Will someone look at the end of page 4 and the beginning of page 5. Is there a sentence fragment or sentence missing? Page 4 ends with a comma plus a footnote.

        • boutis says:

          I thought that too but upon re-reading it is a sentence that is punctuated with a comma and ends with a quote directly from the prior court order which has been ignored by Crump.

      • jello333 says:

        Wow, this is a big deal. And proof of even MORE unethical (maybe even illegal) actions/inactions by the prosecutors.

        “Witness eight is 18 years old and was 18 at the time of Mr. Crump’s interview of her according to her sworn statement to the prosecutor on April 2, 2012. Her unedited statement to the prosecutor was not released to the defense until September and only after repeated requests. Her age was edited out of the interview in a previous disclosure.”

      • nameofthepen says:

        boutis says: “…VERY interesting.

        Holy obvious obstruction of justice, Batman! :shock:

        Thanks so much, Boutis!

    • James F says:

      Wow. Go, West, go! He finally used the phrase ‘obstruction of justice’ and stated the FBI files include exculpatory evidence and an expert who can confirm the voice screaming on the 911 tapes is George.

      • James F says:

        I guess it not specifically an expert, but witnesses who can identify George’s voice.

        • Ricky Jimenez says:

          That statement by West gives me pause about that guy – “exculpatory” my foot. All the claims by relatives and friends that they can identify their guy as the one screaming on the extremely low fidelity tape are worthless. If I were the judge I wouldn’t allow any of that. In other kinds of admissible identification of an unusual item, here screams, by lay people, they have to pick the right one out of a lineup of similar objects. The best evidence that it is Z screaming is still W#6’s echo free comment which I hope the defense checks out thoroughly.

          • boutis says:

            I may be wrong but I think West is referring to witnesses who were THERE. As in lived there and said the guy on bottom was screaming. We have not seen their statements but rather the prosecution’s version and of course the PR Crump version as pushed by the press. West is not going to misrepresent this in a motion to the judge.

            • jordan2222 says:

              You are correct. This motion shows how even our Wolverines have been “fooled.” Before I got here, I was following a “minute by minute time line” blog by Susan Simpson. No one was allowed to say anything about DeeDee because she was a minor. Other blogs followed suit.

              EVERYONE was fooled. How bad is that? Try thinking about it how it alters so much of what we have been told, including the Trayvonites. My head is going crazy, trying to revitalize what is in my memory bank.

              • ytz4mee says:

                “DeeDee” is a composite figure. If you will recall, the voices in the interview tape are different. There are two different girls being interviewed. We have been watching and waiting to see “who” would finally be revealed as “DeeDee”.

                Of course, the Scheme Team never thought it would get this far – they had Corey on board to intimidate GZ into accepting a plea deal, and they already had their extortion/shakedown litigation against various insurance entities in the works.

                The Scheme Team has *always* deflected questions about “DeeDee”, including trying to present the concept that DeeDee would never be called to the witness stand because she was a “traumatized minor” who had been hospitalized.

                • jordan2222 says:

                  There has been a lot of discussion about the two DeeDee’s and I have thought that for a while after comparing the tapes.

                  What I want to see is the defense depose BOTH of them.. ON THE SAME DAMN DAY. Will the real DeeDee please stand up.


                  Wonder when Crump and Martins’s parents will have their next presser?

                  Crump is such a weasel, I would not be surprised to see him pull a JJ and go in the hospital being so severely traumatized and stuff or something.

                • nameofthepen says:

                  ytz4mee says: “Of course, the Scheme Team never thought it would get this far – they had Corey on board to intimidate GZ into accepting a plea deal…”

                  We only want an arrest, all we want is an arrest, we simply want an arrest. – Sabrina Fulton, April 2012

                  And the plan has been foiled, leaving the Scheme Team astride an dangerous tiger they can neither control, nor safely dismount. :twisted:

                  Got popcorn? ;)

                • jello333 says:

                  I care greatly about George, and I’ll dance with joy the day he’s legally exonerated. But this thing must go FURTHER than that! There have to be a bunch of people held accountable for what they’ve done… disbarment at a minimum, but hopefully prison. This is so BLATANT it’s almost beyond comprehension. Like someone else said, if a screenwriter presented this script to a producer, he’d be told it wasn’t plausible, and to do a re-write.

          • jello333 says:

            Well, I think there’s a LOT of evidence it’s George, and not Trayvon. Though most of it is circumstantial. I still say the strongest of all happened during the 2nd bond hearing. For one thing, Sybrina and Tracy didn’t take the stand to counter Robert Sr; but even moreso, they had NO reaction to hearing the screams. It was just like “Ho hum, how boring, let’s get on with it.” Either they’re the most UNCARING parents in the world, or they KNOW it wasn’t Travyon screaming.

          • Dexter says:

            Since he stated “including”, there must be other exculpatory evidence.

      • boutis says:

        This is dynamite. West’s motion is damning. Corey and delaRosa knew how old DeeDee was.

      • ftsk420 says:

        So Crump admits to having it on a recording device but didn’t Crump say it was on his phone. I guess that pic of him holding the recorder during press conference threw a monkey wrench into his program.

        • ytz4mee says:

          Mmm, no, if you listen very carefully to what Crump says under questioning from Judge Nelson, he never actually says the recording is on his phone. He just never corrects her assumption that it is. It was so infuriating to watch that exchange, and not have Judge Nelson ask, “how did you make the recording”, or even, “is the recording on your phone?”
          Then there was the nonsensical throwaway about the FBI having the “most sophisticated recording equipment” as a deliberate but ineffective deflection. West was having none of it then, and it appears he’s having none of it now.

      • ytz4mee says:

        This Motion itself deserves its own post.
        West is the only one who will work to save GZ.

        • jello333 says:

          Are we sure about that? I mean, yeah early on MOM left a lot to be desired. And it COULD be that even now, it’s West doing all the “dirty work”. But who brought West aboard in the first place? If it was George or someone in the family demanding it, that’s one thing. But if it was MOM’s own decision, and if he KNEW the kind of “bulldog” West would be? Well then, doesn’t that mean that MOM welcomes what Don has been doing? MOM knew something had to change, but he also knew his own personality, and he knew that he could never bring himself to do what needed to be done… and so he brought in West to help. If someone knows that this ISN’T how it went down, I’ll be happy to reconsider. But as of right now, it feels to me that something awhile back caused MOM to wake up to the truth of the matter.

          • ytz4mee says:

            We will have to agree to disagree.
            Watch some of the early tapes of the court proceedings.
            Turn the sound off; pay attention ONLY to the body language between MOM and GZ.
            That tells you everything you need to know.

            • jello333 says:

              Oh, I agree completely. But “early on” is the key term for me. I just think that at some point — around the time of the 2nd bond hearing — some switch was flipped in MOM’s head, where he suddenly started to understand what was really going on around him. I can be totally wrong, of course. But that’s just the impression I got. I think there have been two separate and distinct Mark O’Mara’s in this case. I fully admit I can be wrong, and I might be naive (after all, he DOES wear pinkie rings ;) ), but anyway…

              • jordan2222 says:

                It was Don West who helped/pressured MOM to become what he is now. He turned the entire case around. I am convinced of that.

          • doodahdaze says:

            He had to fight a delaying action v. the media.

      • Justice4All says:

        The Dee Dee interview was clearly edited and is only half of the length of the actual phone call…..LMFAO!!

      • rumpole2 says:

        Thanks for the link James… I have got out of the habit of checking the GZLegal site… great to see some progress. I just love “Compel” and “Crump” in the same sentence :D

      • selfdefenseadvocate says:

        Thanks for the link, James. I was so excited earlier, that I thought it was boutis who posted the link. It was you, who made my day!

      • Letsbefairtogz says:


      • kathyca says:

        OMG, it’s about damned time…and PERFECT!!!! The jig is up. I’m about ready to start contributing to the defense again. Go Don West :)

    • James F says:

      Why did Martin’s cousin have to be present at the DeeDee phone call interview?

      Wasn’t there a tweet from Tray’s big bruh from around that time were he says he was going to Miami for something big regarding the case?

      • ftsk420 says:

        So has Dee Dee known TM since kindergarten cause I doubt it.

        • James F says:

          I never bought that kindergarten crap. Going to her house since kindergarten, yet Sybrina never heard of her? I realize they were substandard parents, but even the crappiest parents would know whose house there 5 year old goes to.

          BDLR: How did you meet up with him…from school? Or friends? Or…

          Dee Dee: By coming by my house…

          BDLR: OK…

          Dee Dee: …with his best friend.

          BDLR: Who was his best friend?

          Dee Dee: [Redacted] Yeah.

          BDLR: OK, so you’ve known him for how long about? Approximately…

          Dee Dee: Kindergarten…?

      • James F says:

        …or maybe he was going to Orlando. I know it was in the middle of March to “make some moves” or something. His twitter history no longer goes back that far, I hope someone saved it.

      • jello333 says:

        I think there was. Not only that, but if I recall correctly it sounded like he was gonna be personally, actively involved in MAKING that “something big” happen. Hmm….

    • selfdefenseadvocate says:

      Thank you, boutis. That isn’t just “good stuff” but Fantastic stuff!!! WOW and double WOW. Look out Crumpster- You got a tiger by the tail (by the name of Don West!)

    • jordan2222 says:

      Could it be Robert writing this stuff at the GZ site?

  15. Justice4All says:

    Looks like Shellie is likely going to see her perjury charge rightfully dismissed. Angela Corey had no jurisdiction to charge her!!!


  16. Justice4All says:

    Hopefully West is able to prove Crump & Jackson to be liars in the court and destroy their credibility in all future cases that they are involved with.

    • boutis says:

      Sanctions, disbarment, or jail for contempt. Maybe all three as officers of the court. One can hope.

    • James F says:

      They all lied and manipulated the media so nobody would dare scrutinize or criticize the poor little girl for not coming forth sooner.

      Mr. CRUMP: It really doesn’t because she is a 16-year-old teenager who just lost a person very special to her. Her parents are very concerned. They did not want her to get involved. And it wasn’t till Mr. Martin found the phone records and saw that she called him at 7:12–the police got on the scene 7:17. He was shot and dead on the ground. Five minutes.

      NATALIE JACKSON: Yes. And, you know, I don’t know if it’s a terrible job or just they thought it was inconsequential to do the job. You know, there’s—whether or not it was important to do or it was bungled, we don’t know. But we had to go out and investigate this case. We hired an investigator that got the phone records. And once we saw Trayvon’s phone record, because he was on the—he had his phone with him, and we saw that he was on the phone when this incident purportedly happened. We contacted the person he was on the phone with. It was a young girl. And she told us that she heard Zimmerman approach Trayvon. And this is very extraordinary, because she and Trayvon—according to the phone records, there was a phone call at 7:12. The phone call lasted for four minutes. That would make it 7:16. According to police records, they were on the scene at 7:17, and Trayvon was dead. So, this young girl is a very important witness.

      JASMINE RAND: And I don’t think that I can explain why the shooter hasn’t been arrested. I think that’s exactly why we’re on the phone now, why the students are rallying, because there’s—there’s no explanation for it, especially with the amount of evidence that we have. You know, I think it’s rare in a murder case or a killing case to have this much evidence, to be able to hear, you know, the final moments of Trayvon’s life, to be able to hear the 911 calls of Zimmerman.

      I mean, in particular, you have Zimmerman calling. You have him reporting a suspicious person. You have the police telling him, ordering him to stand down. And then you have him directly defying the officer’s orders and continuing to pursue Trayvon. And, you know, as we heard, we now have the 17-year-old girl that came forward that heard, you know, some of the final moments of Trayvon’s life. And what this witness is telling us is that Trayvon was being followed, that he was trying to run. At one point, he lost Zimmerman. What we have is Zimmerman actively seeking this child out with a nine-millimeter.

      PARKS: Well, part of the problem is she`s a minor so it`s a very delicate situation.

      GRACE: So? What`s delicate?

      PARKS: They`re trying to protect —

      GRACE: Bring the parents in.

      PARKS: Well, one, she`s been traumatized. Number two, they`re trying to work out the process. Obviously the prosecutors and their investigators have to travel to South Florida to do it. So those things are happening as we speak.

    • lovemygirl says:

      Any of us could prove they are liars so I’m sure West can. ;)

      • jordan2222 says:

        Are you posing as me at that JQ site? LOL

        • Sharon says:

          I bet he is. I heard someone say yesterday that someone said he was, and that he is you and you are someone else, and it’s just awful and everything. There are really only 3 commenters at the TH, and we have a terrible time keeping ourselves straight. Or something. 8O

          • jordan2222 says:

            I took a brief look at the site but did not see any of the 3 of us mentioned by name.

            • rumpole2 says:

              I bet the line they take is that it doesn’t matter who DD is, or if the phone call happened at all…. it ALL comes down to GZ should have stayed in his truck (when he was told to) :D

              • jello333 says:

                Do not approach! Do not approach! Louder now, I can’t hear you. Do not approach! C’mon, everyone… DO NOT APPROACH! DO NOT APPROACH!!!

            • James F says:

              It was the jbmission site, where you were all accused of being the same person. The pathological Zimmerman haters all use several sock puppets and naturally assume everybody else does as well.

          • nameofthepen says:

            Sharon says: “I heard someone say…that he is you and you are someone else…There are really only 3 commenters at the TH, and we have a terrible time keeping ourselves straight.”

            Well, I heard this is their theme-song:

            • Sharon says:

              It is!!! That’s it exactly!!

              Now is it you replying to my note….or was that me as you pretending to read my note before I had to reply to your note pretending to be him….this is not as easy as it looks, and I don’t think anyone should be making it hard for those who do it and make it look easy. Eventually we’re gonna have to try to find some more people to participate here at the TH. This business of 4 of us playing the parts of 50 or a hundred is just a bit much on some days. IYKWIM.

  17. anwtex says:

    In the event it hasn’t been posted earlier. Here is the Fox6 story cited on page 1 of the motion –

    “A girl who overheard part of an incident involving Florida teenager Trayvon Martin can help prove he was killed “in cold blood,” an attorney for Martin’s family said Tuesday.”

    “The girl, who was dating the 17-year-old, “completely blows (George) Zimmerman’s absurd self-defense claim out of the water,” Benjamin Crump said at a news conference.”


    • dmoseylou says:

      Don West is about to completely blow the entire Scheme Team’s absurd false narrative out of the water, with the force of a tsunami.

      • LoudaJew says:

        WOW! DD was 18. I would bet money Trayvon filmed the whole beatdown on his phone. wonder if that’s why she felt guilty.

        • ftsk420 says:

          She’s 18 and has been 18 meaning she’s gonna turn 19. What would an 18 year old girl want with TM. He had no job no car nothing he just turned 17.

          • sundance says:

            DeeDee IS Kaiser Soze.

            • Sharon says:

              ….and my edumacation continues….didn’t have a clue about Kaiser Soze until I did a google yesterday….the source of the reference is enough to make my head spin, but the application of it here makes perfect sense. More and more. Ha! No wonder they don’t like you guys much. (I say “you” because sheesh–I just wander around the edges of this thread for the most part and marvel at the production!)

            • jordan2222 says:

              SD: Why do you think Crump lied about her age? Was that a way to keep her silent and off limits to the media?

              • jello333 says:

                This makes me wonder even more about the “double Dee Dee” theory…. the idea that maybe the person on Crump’s recording and the one who BDLR interviewed were not the same. And a couple of things West said in the motion made me wonder, too. Where he said he wanted the original tape “analyzed” by FDLE. I wonder if part of that might be VOICE analysis, comparing that with the Bernie’s interview?

              • sundance says:

                Jordan – There is no 3/20/12 “DeeDee”. That person described does NOT EXIST. complete, total, fabrication. Keyser Soze.

                …….. then he had to come up with one. So he did.

                Remember between 3/20 and 4/2 Crumps Keyser Soze refused to talk to police, investigators, or authorities. Because there was no actual DeeDee until 4/2/12.

                • jordan2222 says:

                  That is incredible but whose voice is on the tape?

                • nameofthepen says:

                  sundance says: “…there was no actual DeeDee until 4/2/12.”

                  Ha hahahaaa…

                  A prank worthy of, I think, that famous all-purpose punch line: “Boy, I bet the midget regrets that party outfit!” :D

      • jello333 says:

        I wanna see people sued, disbarred, imprisoned. I just hope and pray that George, MOM, West and the others wanna see that too! It’s PAYBACK time, guys… do. not. play. nice!

  18. Justice4All says:

    Surely the scheme team never expected the defense to have so many people assist them in uncovering all of the lies. The scheme team tried to use modern day internet media to create a following of racists looking for a civil movement but they never expected there to be such a strong resistance.

    Epic fail!!!

  19. sundance says:

    A Righteous Revealing has only just begun……


    And for those who doubted the approach with Julison – the search was merely for three words. Just three words…. “For – The – Record”. And the bait was taken, the hook now set, the revealing will begin.

    More…. Much, Much more soon to follow……

  20. david says:

    Robert Zimmerman Jr’s open letter to Michael Skolnik at Global Grind http://www.scribd.com/doc/115083874/Global-Grind

  21. maggiemoowho says:

    Wonder who the Scheme team picked to play the part of 18 yr. old DeDe.

  22. doodahdaze says:

    If anyone has ever had a Rat die inside of a wall in their house. Well this case stinks worse than that.

    • maggiemoowho says:

      Ewwwww, I don’t think I want to smell that. I did smell a ham that floated away from a wedding party during a flood. Stunk like Hell. It sat in the heat for a week before someone called the police, they thought it was one of the people who were missing. This case stinks like that week old Ham.

  23. smoothcriminal says:

    should find out who Marcus Singletary is

    With only a sole participant able to relate his side of the story, questions surrounding the details of the unfortunate encounter between Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman remain. Visible, though, are the resulting scars inflicted upon American society, as the altercation has reignited a national debate on gun rights and race relations. As far as public opinion is concerned, a deep racial divide is evident, and, as reported in Washington Post:

    ‘Eight in 10 blacks…think Martin’s killing was not justified, compared with 38 percent of whites….Nearly seven in 10 blacks oppose ‘Stand Your Ground’ laws, which hold that people are legally entitled to fight back with deadly force if they feel threatened, even if they could retreat instead. Most whites — 55 percent — support such laws.’

    Partisan journalism has shaped these beliefs to a large extent, and, in offering a range of opinions, here is an excerpt from a recent CNN interview where I share personal viewpoints regarding the influence of negative news cycles upon our social fabric’s current rift:

    ‘Trayvon’s parents were correct when they cited the lack of civility by some popular media figures who have chosen to find significance in dissecting a teenager’s wardrobe as a somehow ‘factual’ explanation for the child’s untimely (and, apparently, permissible) death by firearm…The phrase [Justice For Trayvon] summarizes the goals that we progressive-minded Americans have defined for ourselves, regarding the incident in question and its potential aftermath.’

    Therefore, with full respect for Mr. Tracy Martin, Ms. Sybrina Fulton, the American people, and the memory of Mr. Trayvon Martin, we present the Justice For Trayvon™ hooded sweatshirt, as our interests lie not in profiteering or in theorizing about the case, but in the ultimate pursuit of legal justice, non-discriminatory civil rights, and personal accountability.

    The garment was designed by Los Angeles-based graphic artist Yannick d’Assignies, who explains:

    ‘I added the wreath because a young boy was killed and it is a nice way to remember him – almost like laying flowers on a grave. The wreath is also a symbol in the justice system, so it also represents remembering a young man and the need for justice at the same time. The script is cursive, as the font is something that becomes familiar to us early in life, and, in the news, images usually depict Trayvon in a ‘Hollister’ jersey featuring cursive text. Finally, a small cross in the word ‘Justice’ is used not in a religious context, but as a symbol of mourning.’

    A portion of the proceeds from sales will be donated to the Justice For Trayvon Martin Foundation™, a charitable organization established by the Martin family and its counsel for such purposes. I urge you to join us in providing emotional (and financial) support to a family of victims whose morale has been shattered by the pointless violence most humans attempt to avoid on a daily basis.

    While displaying empathy for all parties involved, conduct a dignified, peaceful protest against Mr. Zimmerman’s actions and the “Stand Your Ground” laws that may serve to protect them by wearing the official uniform of Justice for Trayvon™ – in comfort, and with pride. As Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. said in his April, 1963 Letter from Birmingham Jail, ‘Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.’


    Marcus Singletary

    • floridianne says:

      The encounter was only unfortunate because a felony aggravated battery was committed resulting in the defensive use of deadly force. This is to be expected in a civilized society with 2nd Amendment protection. Maybe someone should market hoodies to honor our freedom to equalize and sell them to raise funds.

    • Sharon says:

      Maybe he’s this guy? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Singletary

      A dime a dozen, whoever he is. Looking for a way to get attention for himself and make money along the edges of a gigantic mess. I doubt very much he has any documented interest in either legal justice or personal accountability.

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