11-26 George Zimmerman Case – Open Discussion Thread

Use this thread as an open thread just for Zimmerman Case stuff. A place to just dump, collect, or discuss general information about the Trayvon Martin VS George Zimmerman Case.

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169 Responses to 11-26 George Zimmerman Case – Open Discussion Thread

  1. ytz4mee says:

    The State has GZ’s cell phone and all data, which they intend to use as part of their prosecution. Therefore, all of TM’s cell phone info/data is equally vital, and the defense is entitled to it in the same measure.

    Tracey Martin has still not provided a satisfactory answer as to why he refused to cooperate with the State/FDLE on the cell phone data from day one. Instead, he lawyered up. Strange response for a “grief-stricken” parent interested in the Truth.

    • Some confusion here at the Treehouse and with the Orlando Sentinel article. I have seen nothing from the evidence that the “heart” phone was registered to Tracy Martin, Trayvon Martin or Sybrina Fulton.

      In contrast, didn’t MOM recently request info as to whether the phone was registered to Trayvon Martin?

      Tracy Martin never turned over the PIN to his account and also still retained possession of Trayvon Martin’s phone in Miami.

      Drug dealers commonly use two phones: a “burner” phone and a regular phone. On Feb 5, one of his customers asked Trayvon on Facebook: “Damn where u at nigga need a plant” Trayvon responded “no phon.” The short reply tells me he had one phone for facebook, but did not have a workable burner phone.

      http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-linehan/was-trayvon-martin-a-drug-dealer

      • ytz4mee says:

        Thanks for bringing up that point. I have had some questions about the ownership of the heart sticker phone. Has it ever been determined exactly who it belongs to, and how it ended up in Traydemark’s possession?

        • diwataman says:

          There has been absolutely nothing released that shows who that phone belongs to. However, I am going with it being Trayvons phone and being registered to Tracy. As I recently wrote on my blog;

          The strongest evidence we have that shows us that is Travyons phone is the 911 Call that was placed from it[according to the phone records] on March 2 at 12:45pm and the subsequent call backs from the Sanford Police Department. This matches the Property and Evidence Chain of Custody (p.41) of the phone that was reviewed on March 2 at 12:12pm and returned into evidence at 1:07pm. This may have been either Singleton of Santiago dialing 911 to retrieve the cell phone number.

          • You can actually use the phone to make calls without having the access code? That seems like a security failure.

          • myopiafree says:

            Hi Diwataman, What “bothers” me – is that we do not know the NUMBER of these two phones. That would ANSWER a lot of questions. For instance, the faux phone listing provided by Crump. WHAT phone number was referenced – anyway? No one knows.

            • Sometime during early March, the SPD used the phone recovered near Trayvon Martin to call 911 attempting to determine the number of the phone in question. Months ago; I saw the transcript of the phone investigative work performed & the number wasn’t redacted. It’s probably here on the CTH.

          • Knuckledraggingwino says:

            This SOP to ID a phone doesn’t prove whose phone it was. What was the phone # Identified by the 911 system? Was that one of the phone #s in Tracy Martin’s phone plan. How could the police know if Tracy refused to share account info with them?

            • diwataman says:

              I’m a bit perplexed at your questions here. The phone records that came from Tracy Martin show the 911 call. I’m just saying that of everything we have up to this point that this is the strongest thing that shows us the phone found at the scene was being used by Trayvon.

              • So the records that Mr. Martin provided show the 9-1-1 call on March 2 (police testing the phone), followed by two incoming calls also on March 2.

                http://evidencegeorgezimmerman.blogspot.com/2012/07/trayvon-martin-phone-records.html

              • Knuckledraggingwino says:

                Question,

                Did Crump place a 911 call from a phone in Tracy Martin’s possession then hang up? This would have resulted in 911 calling back. This is why we need the reports and testimony of the FDLE tech that examined the phone.

                I am not convinced that the phone found at the scene WAS NOT TM’s phone, but I want proof that it is.

                Imagine poor Chad’s reaction if he had been videoing TM putting the bangaz on a cracka only to see the vicious thug get shot. I would guess that the thugget would have pissed his pants while running back to mommy’s house. Mommy who understoood the legal implications of Chad aiding and abetting a felonious assault because she was a juvie officer would have crapped her pants, then called Crump. Crump would then advise his clients to obfuscate and obstruct while using charges of rayyycisssm to deflect any enquiry.

                • justfactsplz says:

                  I am with your line of thinking on this all the way. I am not convinced yet. There has been too much hanky panky with the phones.

                • diwataman says:

                  Oh I still want something definitive as well that shows me who that phone belongs to. I would think though that it would be one hell of a coincidence that if we are to say someone else but the SPD dialed 911 at the same time frame the SPD was reviewing the phone when the report says “Inv. Singleton contacted a representative from T-Mobile who told her if the Sanford Police Department obtained the cell phone number…”

                  • Knuckledraggingwino says:

                    It is not a coincidence if Serino is telling Crump approximately when investigators are doing a preliminary examination of the phone.

                    I am leaning towards the idea that it is one of the Phones in Tracy Martin’s plan, but may be for Brandy Green rather than TM.

                    Even if it is TM’s phone, there are reasons other than to conceal criminal activity, such add drug l dealing, for obstructing the police examination of that phone.

                    Does the call log in the phone memory confirm or refute Crump’s “phone records?”

                    Are their any photos or videos in the phone memory that document the events that night?

                    Is there a video of TM initiating a confrontation by returning to the “T” to initiate a confrontation by assaulting GZ? Does that video confirm that TM’s assault was prolonged, potentially lethal and unrelenting? Does the existence of this video confirm that Chad Green was complicit in this assault?

                • MJW says:

                  Did Crump place a 911 call from a phone in Tracy Martin’s possession then hang up?

                  DiwataMan has photos of the phone records from ABC news where the calling number is partially obscured, but still mostly readable. The number appears to be 407-688-5070, which is the number for the SPD.

      • myopiafree says:

        Hi Arch – Some common-sense and self-generated “pass words”, or “codes”. Yes, you can “lock” your own cell-phone with your own “pass word” if you wish. But what happens if you FORGET your pass word. Now you can not even use your own “burner” cell phone. (Stupid you.) So NOW you have to go to T-Mobil to get BACK INTO YOUR OWN CELL PHONE! This is why and how T-Mobile can get you back on your own phone. This is why the police needed Tray-Dad to give them that access (which he REFUSED to do). Probably the police could have forced the issue – but have not yet done so. I think O’mara could do it – but it is not his job.

        • Angel says:

          “This is why the police needed Tray-Dad to give them that access (which he REFUSED to do)”

          Hi Myopiafree,
          After doing a little research on the passcode for the individual phone, Tracy probably would not have known the passcode to Trayvon’s phone. I am old school so I did not know anythign about how a passcode works for the smart phones until the discussion about it forced me to learn more.. And without knowing the passcode to that individual phone, the provider cannot do anything but reset the phone which in some cases destroys the data on the phone. So this is a tricky situation. However, there are ways to crack the code that is well know to LE and others as this article delineates:

          http://www.grabi.org/cops-law-enforcement-can-easily-crack-your-passcode-and-access-all-your-iphone-data-video/

          Take note of this that is in the article I reference:

          “Actually this post is all about how Law enforcement cracks your iPhone’s security code. Basically you set your iPhone to require a four-digit passcode, and it may keep your private data safe from hackers or thieves. Then the said Law Enforcement comes to the scene, determined to see the data you’ve stored on your smartphone, those four digits will slow down the process of accessing it be less tha two minutes. By using this Micro Systemation’s application called “XRY” can easily and quickly crack an iOS or Android phone’s passcode, simply dump its data to a PC, decrypt it, and displays information like the users’s GPS location, call logs, files, contacts, messages, and many more.

          I didn’t have a passcode on my smartphone prior to the dicussions about it here but I do as of today.

          • myopiafree says:

            Angel – You are completely correct. I did not “bother” with my “Cell” either – but any LE and get into a “Cell” the way you describe it. I am surprised that Florida LE does not have a “Task Force” to do EXACTLY THAT. All you need is a “team” to do it. The “Heart” cell at the scene was “fair game” since it is POLICE PROPERTY. They do not need permission to “crack” the cell phone information – just the “will” to do it. Thanks!

            • Angel says:

              “They do not need permission to “crack” the cell phone information – just the “will” to do it. Thanks!”

              Exactly!!

      • Crump has been quite silent on this case ever since the persecution lost the gag order hearing.. Perhaps he is still busy hiding assets? also LOL at the fact that Chris Serino has hired Jose Baez as council. This case is sinking faster than the Titanic.

        #NO_LIMIT_ASTRONAUT :3
        yu aint told me yu swung on a bus driver??
        cracka got mad kuz he got dem bangaz put 2 em by a yung ASTRONAUT :3
        Damn where u at ASTRONAUT :3 need plant

        • myopiafree says:

          The Crump’s mathematical equation: No money – no Crump. What, you want that TOO?

        • Liberals USED to be the optimistic ones says:

          You dont see the irony?
          George was interviewed by serino for days WITHOUT legal counsel, but as soon as Serino is gonna be interviewed, oh well, then he gets all scared and needs a lwawyer quick (George Zimmerman had nothing to hide! nobody will be as bold as our hero GZ from here on in….certainly not crump a dump or his scheme team)

    • Liberals USED to be the optimistic ones says:

      Strange response for a guy who has been PRETENDING to be helpful all this time

    • Liberals USED to be the optimistic ones says:

      OBSTRUCTION of JUSTICE!

    • lovemygirl says:

      But did you notice the latest comments and their ratings? Tides a turning.

      • lovemygirl says:

        - jules , USA, 26/11/2012 03:08
        Click to rate Rating 17
        Report abuse
        There’s no excuse for using these pictures that don’t represent how they two young men actually looked that night. Trayvon was 5’11” and 158 pounds. He was not the small chubby cheeked child show in this picture.
        – John Jacobs , Dallas, United States, 26/11/2012 02:31
        Click to rate Rating 41

        Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2238196/Trayvon-Martin-case-George-Zimmermans-lawyers-demand-dead-teens-cellphone-PIN.html#ixzz2DJkdfwTA
        Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

        • myopiafree says:

          Hi Love,
          You are correct – this is MEDIA FRAUD – picture of 11 year-old, verse 28 year-old George. But at least they are looking at these TWO cell-phones – and have no “clue” about what the hell they are doing with them !!
          ++++++
          Fight over Trayvon Martin’s cellphone as lawyers for shooter George Zimmerman demand teenager’s father hand over PIN to access calls
          Trayvon Martin, 17, shot dead on February 26 in Sanford, Florida
          By DAILY MAIL REPORTER
          PUBLISHED: 10:41 EST, 25 November 2012 | UPDATED: 12:05 EST, 25 November 2012

          A major piece of evidence in the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin has yet to be analyzed – his cell phone.
          Attorneys for shooter George Zimmerman are fighting to get information pulled from phone records in the hope of shedding light on the teenager’s death.
          The phone was found at the scene with its battery dead on the night that Trayvon Martin was killed on February 26 in Sanford, Florida

        • jello333 says:

          Actually, Trayvon was even bigger than that, but still…. point taken, that’s a good comment. Good to see people finally waking up.

    • doodahdaze says:

      If there is no offense. What is the defense?

  2. arkansasmimi says:

    I asked on ydays thread, but I will put here in case someone knows and didnt see. I had read somewhere that Serino’s Deposition was this week, does anyone know if thats true? I know he hired Jose Baez. Hmm wonder how many times he plea the 5th? TIA

  3. Mikado Cat says:

    What I have read says Serino on Tuesday.

  4. diwataman says:

    You know I have been thinking about that damn phone for so long I’m going to puke, lol. But here’s one theory that could explain some things and would throw this whole thing about accessing the phone into a ringer. It could be possible that is Brandy’s phone. Tracy had four phones registered to him on his T-Mobile account. One of those phones could have been for Brandy. They may have taken his phone away before leaving Miami for Sanford, as punishment for whatever he did to get suspended for ten days, which would leave Trayvon’s phone back in Miami. Then for the weekend, while Tracy and Brandy went to the Freemason convention, they let Trayvon use Brandy’s phone.

    • myopiafree says:

      Hi Diwataman – What concerns me – is that the police department MAKES NO EFFORT TO FIND OUT!! The “heart” at the scene – did not even have to belong to TM. The police has EVERY RIGHT TO FIND OUT – WHO IT BELONGED TO – INCLUDING ITS PHONE NUMBER. But all of this is a big mystery because TRAY-DAD STONE WALLS THE POLICE. Then he calls the police “racist” as Crump did. Then Tray and Crump tell lies. That it the problem with this case and the police work.

      • diwataman says:

        They did make an effort to find out, we just don’t know everything they did as we don’t have a full account of what took place regarding the investigation and the information they were able to retrieve. The State nor O’Mara have provided us with that info. I certainly agree with you about Tracy.

        • boutis says:

          If the phone records are never provided, because of wiping them clean or physical destruction of the phone, other records about the activities of Trayvon WILL be available. School, juvie police records, Facebook, Twitter, etc will be scrutinized as well as the implication that Martin’s family is hiding various facts about his activities which probably have a bearing on the case. It is increasingly obvious that the Crump bunch and the Martin family never expected anything to go this far.

          They are in unknown territory and over their heads. They wanted a quick arrest, quick settlements to make them all go away. It has been a shakedown from the beginning. They did not give two hoots about a conviction. They wanted an arrest, incompetent and rigged representation for Zimmerman, and quick shakedown cash from the city, insurance companies and if possible a special payment from the Florida legislature.

          They did not do their homework, presumed Zimmerman was white and incapable of fighting back, got the press to do their dirty work but did not realize that they are too stupid to cover their tracks, and that other bigger and smarter sharks (lawyers) would see an opportunity to go after the state of Florida for malicious prosecution and libel from the really deep pockets of the media. Crump, the media. the Martins are small fish about to be eaten by the big kids in the professional tort law firms who have very deep pockets to gather evidence. My guess is that MOM and West are doing the criminal and others will be going after the state and media. The fees will be astronomical as will be the settlements.

        • partyof0 says:

          Hell…get/subpoena DD’s/TMgf’s phone records with the 400 minutes of talk time on it…should’ve told that Judge all phones need to be subpoenaed to authenticate “supposed” conversations relevant to the probable cause affidavit…K-rapp!
          Maybe O’mara has a book in mind of his own…

        • jello333 says:

          I’m still thinking about what it means if there are TWO phones, as some suspect. If Trayvon was originally using a different phone, but maybe ditched it at the apartment before going back to find George, then the cops may never have gotten their hands on that one. If Tracy found it, and assuming it was one of the phone on his account, he likely just held onto it without saying a thing about it. So on the surface, that seems to mean that anything on that phone is gone for good (assuming Tracy saw to that by deleting it all). But if he DID do that, then there’s a big problem for THEM. Because assuming that was the phone Trayvon was using to talk to Dee Dee, it will become clear to the cops/investigators/defense that the Heart phone was NOT being used to talk to Dee Dee. Which would destroy the whole Dee Dee narrative.

          I guess what I’m trying to say is this: If there WAS a 2nd phone that was the one he used to talk to Dee Dee, then Tracy and the prosecution is in trouble no matter how it goes. If MOM gets info off that phone, it likely will destroy the prosecution’s case; if MOM does NOT get info off that phone, then there’s no confirmation of Trayvon talking with Dee Dee at all.

          • justfactsplz says:

            If there was proof that Trayvon was talking to DeeDee on a phone, the prosecution would have had that proof in their discovery, don’t ya think?

            • jello333 says:

              Yep. Which is just one reason I think that what MOM and West are up to now goes well beyond getting George exonerated. I think they already feel they’ve got that pretty much in the bag. IMO, a lot of what we’ve been seeing recently has more to do with finding evidence to use AGAINST Crump and his minions. I really do believe that MOM/West’s defense strategy has now morphed into OFFENSE. At a minimum, for civil suits, but very likely also for criminal sanctions against certain individuals.

              • justfactsplz says:

                I believe you are right. They have had the stuff for the phones I am pretty sure. Crump needs to face charges for creating ebidence. Tracey needs to face charges for obstructing justice. Those cut and paste phone logs won’t quite cut it for ebidence. And I wonder what is going on with Crump producing those witnesses concerning DeeDee.

              • jordan2222 says:

                I agree with you, Jello. There is a reason that the defense is moving so slowly. From what I have read, prosecutorial misconduct is rarely charged and is even more difficult to prove.

                It looks to me like West is dotting all of the i’s and crossing all of the t’s as he methodically lays the foundation for doing that in addition to making a case for future civil suits.

                Unless George made a settlement with NBC, he has no money and does not seem to be in a hurry to file for indigent status. That truly baffles me since it is “free” money provided the state. Why would he turn that down?

                As far as I know, the defense is not getting paid. These investigations,, depositions, etc, must be expensive and Nelson’s decisions only have made the process even more expensive.

                The way it looks now, the defense will only get paid if they win one or more civil suits?

                Do you know anything different from what I have said here?

                • jello333 says:

                  No, that’s about how I see it too. But as for why MOM & West don’t seem too concerned about money anymore, I think there are two reasons for that. For one thing, I think they believe this is gonna be over much sooner than some expect. And for another, I think they believe that once George is out of the woods, things will then quickly pivot to civil suits…. and money will come pouring in (some more quickly than others, of course). As for filing for indigent status? All I can think is that they don’t wanna give the MSM and the Scheme Team an opportunity to say “Zimmerman had tons of money, but now he’s taking taxpayer money!”. Public opinion is slowly turning in George’s favor, and they probably don’t wanna risk that… just a guess.

                • justfactsplz says:

                  Quite a few large donations have been steadily coming in. They know the money will all come in inventually with the civil suits. Some companies and groups donate Trayvonites are boycotting some companies for donating.

                  • jello333 says:

                    Glad to hear that. That’s great. I’ve only given $20, back a few months ago. I wish I could do lots more, but me unemployed and my wife getting SSI… well, it’s kinda hard to do right now. So I try to make up for it with giving as much moral support (mostly right here) as I can.

                  • justfactsplz says:

                    The moral support is crucial to George’s well being and I am sure he cherishes it. I know what you mean about finances. My husband and I at seven years apart both had to go on disability, he at age 50 and me at age 57. Those checks do not stretch that far sometimes. We would rather be working.

                  • jordan2222 says:

                    MOM promised updates and transparency about the fund. I have seen nothing. Have you?

                  • justfactsplz says:

                    I haven’t seen zilch either. i haven’t heard anything from him on this since he was on the media asking for donations long time ago when he stated the defense fund was very low.

            • myopiafree says:

              Hi Just – I truly DO NOT KNOW if DeeDee was talking. But, I doubt it was the “Heart” phone with the DEAD BATTERY. This is why the content of the phone needs to be PROVEN. This is why we need the “Ping Logs”. Dead Battery? Dead Corey’s case.
              Dead DeeDees coached statements. Dead “Phone listings” Crump “denies all”, blames Tracy for “lying” about everything – moves on to “greener pastures”. Escapes SCOTT FREE.

              • justfactsplz says:

                I can see Crump getting off, that scoundrel. I don’t think that heart phone will be any kind of evidence. There is a reason it was not listed in Trayvon’s belongings. I can see this whole probable cause affidavit going up in smoke concerning Dee Dee talking to Trayvon on that or any phone.

          • jordan2222 says:

            Sure wish someone could let us know for sure if there were 2 phones or not. I cannot keep up with all of this as the story/opinions keep changing.

    • It’s not an unreasonable theory. If it turns out to be true MOM is going to have a tough time finding out which phone Trayvon usually used and getting access to it. He’d have to subpoena all of Tracy’s phones and records. And by this time what would the odds be that Trayvon’s phone hasn’t been wiped? Pretty slim I’d say considering what they did with his social media accounts.

      • justfactsplz says:

        It is possible that SPD already had all of the information concerning both phones by the time Omara came on the scene.

    • yankeeintx says:

      You are the phone expert, so is it possible…Tracy had 4 phones on his account…himself, Trayvon, Brandy, and Chad. Trayvon leaves his phone in Miami, but brings his sim card? His sim card would have all of his contacts. He borrows Chad’s phone, but uses his own sim card?

    • justfactsplz says:

      That is a very good theory and makes sense. I do believe Trayvon’s phone was taken from him for punishment and left in Miami. They probably did not want to leave the boys without a phone in case of emergency.

    • Not sure if a Baby’s Mamma would rate high enough in a relationship to have a phone. Would that allow Tracy to spy on Brandy.

      Would Brandy want the Baby’s Daddy to have control over her and her son’s cell phones? With this Baby Daddy’s history, not likely.

    • ftsk420 says:

      If that’s true then we would need to see what’s on Chad phone. He stated he called TM and then a lil while later called his mother.

    • jello333 says:

      Are we no longer putting any credence in something that was being said here awhile back? Something like, “That phone belonged to a little girl who was not known by Trayvon…” I thought it was an odd comment at the time, unless someone KNEW some details the rest of us didn’t.

  5. Interesting burglary case resulting in the death of two burglars and the arrest of the homeowner. Minnesota has neither Stand Your Ground nor Castle Doctrine.

    http://www.startribune.com/local/east/180785621.html?page=1&c=y

    “They were just really great people,” said a friend of the deceased. “They could make anyone laugh.”

      • myopiafree says:

        Subject: Good kids? Bad Kids? Try to avoid stealing things – and breaking an entering a man’s home – that would be a start.

        Much like “Saint Travon” versus “Drug Dealer Trayvon” – it depends on WHO you talk to.

        ++++++

        Different Pictures: Friends and family said that Brady (left) and Kifer (right) were model students, while others said that they weren’t surprised they would be involved in a robbery.

        Smith believes the two have robbed his home more than once.

        John Lange said that Smith might have ‘snapped’ after having been burglarized at least twice before by other teens in the area, according to the Star Tribune. Smith said that he suspected that the two had been responsible for at least some of those past robberies.
        Students who went to the same school as Brady, one of the victims, said that they weren’t surprised that he would be involved in a robbery.

        ‘He gets in trouble at school a lot and it’s something that could happen with his friend group,’ Forest Wonderlich told KSTP-TV.

      • Reports this morning was homeowner shot 2 teenage burglars.

        http://www.startribune.com/local/180853761.html

        New information was released this afternoon showed the homeowner will go to prison.

        • jello333 says:

          Oh my god. Unless this guy can prove some kind of insanity defense, then he needs to be locked up for a long time.

          • jordan2222 says:

            This story makes no sense. There must be more to it. Why would anyone of sane mind do this? Could he have lost complete control of his anger over what had happened before?

            If what we heard in this video is true, then, yes, his remaining years may not be so pleasant. So after stopping their illegal activity with his weapons. he then decides to execute them and goes on to move the bodies without ever calling LE?

            Is that the way you understand this?

            • jello333 says:

              Yeah, that’s what it sounds like. And if the cops are telling the truth, the guy actually confessed to that. Wow. So yeah, the only chance he’s got is some kind of insanity defense. And even if that flies, he’s still gonna do many years in jail… just maybe psychiatric rather than normal prison.

    • myopiafree says:

      Subject: Breaking and entering is a FELONY. Parents should teach there children – that if you do that, you can expect the home-owner to FEAR YOUR INTENTIONS.

      Parents who allow there “children” to do this – must expect the worst – as with anyone breaking into a home.

      ++++++

      “They were 17 and 18 years old, and they didn’t need to die,” Shaeffel told Bruce Smith as As she stood in the driveway, tears flowing down her face.

      “That all depends on your perspective,” he told her.

      A series of break-ins had made Byron Smith, a 64-year-old retired U.S. State Department worker, frustrated and fearful, his brother said Sunday.

      In the rear of the house, which sits on the bank of the Mississippi River, surrounded by tall pines and birches, is a shattered bedroom window, now boarded over. It was where, Bruce Smith said, the teens used a lead pipe to break the glass, crawl in, walk down a hallway and go downstairs, surprising Byron Smith as he tinkered in his basement workshop over the lunch hour.
      +++++
      Breaking in in day-light – what the hell do you expect??

    • Sounds as though the guy feared for his life & killed two home invaders that were in the process of committing a felony. That sounds like justifiable homicide from where I’m sitting. It sounds as though he acted improperly by not reporting the home invasion, the shooting & the death of the felonious home invaders. Maybe the guy didn’t trust the authorities to fairly investigate the circumstances that led to the confrontation & the shooting. Maybe he valued his freedom far greater then he trusted the objectiveness, competence & honesty of the authorities. When I see quotes such as “They were just really great people,” I have to question the character of those making such a statement…. Here’s a link to the story of an 18 yr old Oklahoma woman that killed (12 gauge- double barrel shotgun) an armed home invader, she has public sympathy in her corner.

      • wag o' the western plains says:

        As a Permit to Carry holder in the Great State of Minnesota, the householder properly used his gun to stop the threat when he shot the perps hips as they came down the stairs, incapacitating them. His fail was to keep shooting after the threat was subdued. He went above and beyond the law when he shot the boy point blank in the head, and the girl several times in the chest, with a coup de grace to the face. Oh, and not calling the police for over 24 hours. Big fail.

        • jello333 says:

          Wow. I have no desire to read the details of that case, but if what you just stated is actually what happened… just wow. MURDER 2 at a minimum. I don’t care if they had broke into his house or not. If they were no threat, and yet he did THAT…. yep, that’s murder, plain and simple.

          • jordan2222 says:

            As I said, executing them makes no sense. It makes me wonder about his past history insofar as violence. Has he ever lost control like this before?

            • jello333 says:

              This guy is either insane (overall, or at least temporarily) or evil. One or the other, or maybe a little of both. I don’t like people who break into houses and try to steal stuff. But I like murderers even less…. far less, in fact. Not all homeowners who kill burglars are murderers, of course. Most probably are NOT. But this guy?… not sure what else we can call him. (again, this is all assuming what the cops are saying is true)

              • myopiafree says:

                Hi Jello – I don’t know either. But if you have children, you should recommend that they DO NOT BREAK INTO HOMES – they might get shot. This is a tragedy – of course – for all concerned. But there is an object lesson, that you do not do this.

                • jello333 says:

                  Absolutely. Burglarizing houses is wrong on MANY levels. It’s legally wrong, of course. But even moreso, it’s morally wrong. Not only are you taking something that’s not yours, you could cause people to become paranoid, and not even feel safe in their own homes any more. To me, that’s the main crime in home burglaries: Not the value of the items you steal, but the insecurity you might instill in the people who live there. And then, of course, beyond any harm (financially or emotionally) you’re causing to the homeowner, you very well might be getting your own self into a life-and-death situation. Is it worth the risk? Really, on so so many levels, home burglaries is one of the stupidest crimes you can commit.

      • John VI says:

        Meh, maybe hes an hispanic white guy and nows how the media and police treat those racists.

      • James F says:

        At least none of the friends and family of these young adult burglars are referring to them as children and showing photos of them when they were ten or eleven.

        • jello333 says:

          I know nothing about the burglars or the shooter. But you oughta read a comment someone else made here earlier. If they’re right, then the shooter is in BIG trouble. Said that after shooting the two of them, and incapacitating them, the guy then proceeded to walk over and shoot one of them in the chest several times, and both of them in the head. If that’s true, IF… then the guy should be locked up for a long, long time.

      • jordan2222 says:

        @70scarrestoguy
        What you say seems to be a fair analysis but why would he execute them after he apparently had stopped their unlawful act? I am asking that based on what he “allegedly” told LE, in particular, placing the gun underneath one of the victim’s chin and firing. That truly makes no sense unless his anger totally overcame his thought process.

    • Knuckledraggingwino says:

      Given the State of Florida and DOJ malice in the GZ case, the proper response is to a criminal attack is:

      Shoot,

      Shovel,

      Shut Up.

      Unfortunately; this guy failed to do the shoveling.

      • jordan2222 says:

        I find it amazing that people today talk to LE in situations like this and that includes George. While a person may believe he has nothing to hid. by now, most of us know the danger of not having an attorney present.

        I am still puzzled as to why George continued to talk with LE after giving them his first account. Wouldn’t he realize that either they did not believe him or were trying to trip him up? I have a hard time with with him doing so many interviews with them including the reenactment and worse yet, telling the story on national TV.

        Like everyone else here, I am totally convinced of his innocence and that he is being maliciously prosecuted.

        However, he is certainly guilty of not using good common sense after his first interview.

        Sorry but I do not get that part about George. Maybe some one has some insight as to why he set himself up and allowed them to trick and/or trap him.

        • jello333 says:

          Naive and overly-trusting. That’s how I see him. George is/was a good guy… in some regards, TOO good for his own good. I just hope this whole affair doesn’t change him too much. It would be terrible if he wound up unable to trust people because of this.

          • Angel says:

            “It would be terrible if he wound up unable to trust people because of this.”

            Jello333: One would have to be saint not to be somewhat cynical after what GZ has been through.

            • jello333 says:

              “One would have to be saint not to be somewhat cynical after what GZ has been through.”

              No doubt. Skepticism can be a good and necessary thing. Even a bit of cynicism re. certain things can be good. Yeah, I’m sure George HAS changed some, but like I said, just hopefully it won’t be too drastic. From some of the videos I’ve seen of him, I think he’ll come through this alright. I’m not too worried about how he acted in the courtroom the last couple times. It seemed to me that he was just trying to kinda block it all out, so as not to stress over something he couldn’t control…. which is not a bad strategy.

              • jordan2222 says:

                History has shown that we must be very careful of what we say to LE. A LE officer would have a difficult time “proving” to me that I can trust him. I learned that the hard way and it looks like George is, too.

                EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US should know to not EVER talk to a Federal agent under ANY circumstances whatsoever without an attorney present and, even then, without the conversation being recorded or videotaped. The risks are simply too great.

        • justfactsplz says:

          For one thing he had investigators from SPD and FDLE telling him that everything pointed to self defense and that he would probably not be arrested. Then it happened and it was too late to turn back. After watching the very first coverage I felt strongly that he needed an attorney and he needed to combat all of the bias media before it got out of hand. I also thought he should have gone to the hospital that night for documentation of his injuries. I took it very seriously the game these people were playing.

          • jordan2222 says:

            You said:
            “For one thing he had investigators from SPD and FDLE telling him that everything pointed to self defense and that he would probably not be arrested. ”

            That is exactly what I mean. Why on earth would he continue to believe that after the nature of the next interview AND the ones after that? Surely, at some point, he had to think “Why are they asking me the same questions again? “

            • justfactsplz says:

              I do not understand it either but what’s done is done. The important thing now is the tide is turning in his favor, thank God.

              • jordan2222 says:

                True and hindsight is often 20/20. My guess is that he feels awful about not going to the hospital and doing multiple interviews with LE. Not sure what he thinks now about doing the show with Hannity. I know opinions vary but he definitely said things that could be easily used to discredit him. Even I was shocked that he said “skipped” even though he was really only clarify what he said originally. It is virtually impossible for someone to recount an event exactly the same each time.

                We used to play a common game that proved how much one sentence can change in about 5 minutes. Maybe he never played it or forgot about it.

  6. Hugh Stone says:

    THUGWATCH: Thug assaults store clerk and gets killed.

    http://www.click2houston.com/news/HPD-Gas-station-clerk-shoots-man-after-altercation/-/1735978/17546302/-/yiy59o/-/index.html

    The owner should never have went outside on his own property says the family.

    • myopiafree says:

      Hi Hugh – Same old story – trying to “get it” AT 3:30 IN THE MORNING?? Punching the clerk in the face – for the ‘fun” of it. What happened – they run out of Skittles and “Lean”??
      +++++
      The shooting happened outside the Valero gas station on Martin Luther King Boulevard at Bellfort Street at 3:30 a.m. Monday.

      According to Houston police, the clerk said two people tried to get into the convenience store but it was locked. When the clerk unlocked the doors to try and get them to leave, he said the men hit him in the face, so he fired his gun, officials said.

      Alexander Colloway III, 21, was shot. The other man took the victim to a firehouse in the 11000 block of Cullen for help. Colloway was taken to Ben Taub Hospital in critical condition. Relatives said Colloway has not been breathing on his own.

      “Y’all know that’s wrong,” said Colloway’s father. “My son come to that store every day.”

      Detectives said Colloway was not armed when he was shot.

      The clerk said he fired his weapon in self-defense.

    • Kinda like “he never should’ve gotten outa the car” LOL. I’ve very little sympathy for those who are killed while committing a felony against their killer. I prefer the law abiding legally armed citizen survive a felony attack rather than the felonious Thug that perpetrated the attack.

    • Hugh Stone says:

      He is not dead.
      Quanell x to da rescue!!!!!!!

      “Quanell X, family of 21-year-old shot by Valero store clerk demand justice”
      http://www.khou.com/news/local/HPD–Valero-clerk-shoots-man-who-tried-to-enter-store-after-hours-180852791.html

      • jordan2222 says:

        “Let the owner know there are going to be problems,” Quanell X said.

        Sound like a threat to me. What is a Community activist and what does that name mean?

    • Tommy Roff says:

      OOOOPSIE DAISY….

      From your own article Hugh:
      “Investigators have not said if the clerk will be charged. One of the men who was with Colloway, Kenneth DeWayne Bogan, has been charged with aggravated assault, police said.”

      LOL

      ^

  7. How long does it take to guess a 4 digit PIN?

    • Maybe I ought to duck when I post this comment. They ought to check the numbers 0420 or 0666, they’d be appropriate to a drug dealing wannabe Thug.

    • John VI says:

      Thats a good question actually. I know iOS uses a 3 count and timer system, so you 3 shots at the code and then you have to wait 5 mins to try the next. Im rarely so drunk that I miss the code on my phone more than three times ;) so Im not sure if android uses anything similar. But I know it took less than 20 mins to get a door code from the old mechanical 4 pin locks they used in uni residences 20 years ago. ( you would be SHOCKED how often the door code was the unit number… lazy buggers)

  8. mommakk51 says:

    How hard could it be to guess that PIN? I’d start with his birth year, last 4 of his social, last 4 digits of the phone number.. he’d have made it something easy to remember.

    • James F says:

      It is clear that FDLE and FBI have no interest in unlocking the phone, for some mysterious reason.

      It is curious that the FBI would dedicate dozen’s of agents to investigate GZ for alleged racism, but they did not bother to thoroughly investigate the phone while it was in their possession.

      • John Galt says:

        “It is curious”

        Not really. Fits our new 3rd world country status perfectly.

      • jello333 says:

        Hmm… Do we know how the FDLE and FBI got involved? I mean, someone had to request their help, right? Was that Corey? If so, then might it have gone like this?:

        At first she has hopes that they’ll discover stuff to nail George. But she soon realizes that that’s not gonna happen. In fact, the stuff they’re finding is all helping to exonerate him…. be it forensic evidence of the shooting itself, or statements re. George’s supposed racism. The more the FDLE and FBI dig, the WEAKER Corey’s case gets. And by then she has figured out just how weak the whole Dee Dee scenario is, too. So she specifically asks the two agencies to STOP…. don’t do anything else, including with the phone(s).

        I don’t know. Does she (or maybe the governor) have that kind of authority? Of course if it DID happen like this, MOM/West should be able to find that out… and make a HUGE stink about it. Just more proof of a conspiracy.

      • hooson1st says:

        James F

        FBI was investigating the racism charge against GZ. TM phone was irrelevant to that investigation. Not sure about FDLE. Do we know for sure what all they did or did not do with it?

        • James F says:

          We know that on 10/20/2012, an FDLE analyst was ordered not to test it for prints.

          Megan M, Myburgh Crime Laboratory Analyst Latent Print Section

          “One sealed plastic bag said to contain “cell phone belonging to Martin (not opened)”

          “No latent print examinations were performed on Exhibit DMS-7 per information received from Special Agent Supervisor David Lee.”

          (page 119 of 184)

          • Knuckledraggingwino says:

            Kind of like theFBIbballistics lab being ordered to not don definitive testing on the ATF agents shotduringnthe initial raid on the Branch Davidian compound at Waco?

            The ATF stated that their agents were ambushedwitha fusillade of unaimed fire from full auto AK-47s and .50 Machineguns.

            Accotrding to the FBI’s annual publication Law Enforcement Officers Killed and Assaulted, all four agents were killed with a singular head shot rather than multiple, randomly located wounds from unaimed weapons fires. Both AK-47 and.50 BMG will penetrate the level II-A Kevlar body armor worn by agents without survival plates. No agents were killed with .50 BMG rounds. One agent was shot with a .223 projectile, two were shot with .308 projectiles, and one was shot with an indeterminate projectile that was consistent with either .308 or 7.62×39 mm.

            It should be noted that the Branch Davidians had both .223 and .308 caliber rifles in addition to AKS-47s and a Barrett .50 BMG. However; the ATF also had sniper team at their undercover house 200 yards from the scene that was armed with .223 and .308 caliber rifles who Fred three dozen rounds without hitting any of the Branch Davidians.

            • myopiafree says:

              Hi Knuckle – Like many other statements – this is a severe distortion – to protect the ATF.

              ALL THEY HAD TO DO – was to get a SEARCH WARRENT !! All they had to do was to get a recording of “full auto fire” – from a machine gun. (They never recorded anything like that.) Al they had to do was to knock on the door – and state that they had a warrent to search for the identified weapons (i.e., full-auto AK 47s). There MIGHT HAVE BEEN A PROBLEM – BUT I DOUBT IT !! There was on EXCUSE FOR AN ARMED AGRESSIVE ATTACK ON THIS COMPOUND. I think they SHOT THE DOGS FIRST. (I can’t prove it – to silence them for their agressive attack on the 2nd floor.) But NONE OF THIS MADE LEGAL SENSE.
              ++++
              Statement> The ATF stated that their agents were ambushed with a fusillade of unaimed fire from full auto AK-47s and .50 Machineguns.
              ++++
              I have a “poor opinion” of the Dividians – but they had the right to receive a search warrent – and agree to it. This was GROSS EXCESS OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT BECAUSE Clinton hated the legal ownership of firearms. The result? 82 men women and children died – for no good reason.

              • jello333 says:

                See, here’s another example of things that people on the left and on the right can agree on. I and most of my friends at the time (who were mostly libs) all thought the initial assault on the Branch Davidians was illegal. And then when the final massacre occurred?… well, I thought then and I think now that it was MURDER on the part of the gov’t. I still believe that many members of the AFT, Janet Reno, and maybe even Bill Clinton should have been prosecuted for that. Oh, and a different case, but…. I also think the Ruby Ridge thing was the fault of the gov’t, and some cops should have been prosecuted.

                • jordan2222 says:

                  Cold blooded murder is the only way anyone could describe the calculated killing of Randy Weaver’s wife. A trained, experienced sniper did that. There is no way she could have been accidentally shot in the head while she was holding her baby. It was a precise shot and was an especially heinous crime that deserved the death penalty. That will forever haunt me.

              • jordan2222 says:

                No federal agents were convicted of murder at Waco or Ruby Ridge while anyone with common sense knows that these guys were hell bent on killing folks.

                All you have to do is ask why they were armed for combat and why there were so many of them. Both were set ups. At least Gerry Spence was able to help Randy Weaver but lawyers like him are rare.

                What is tragic is that it could happen again. Drones can wipe out an entire farm or compound on which people with different views live together in peace. It is now easy to say “oops.. it was an accident.”

                We can no longer trust our own damn government. We are all dispensable and can be used for target practice. All it takes is for the man in the White House to say, “sick em.”

            • Knuckledraggingwino says:

              IMHO, the question of who started the final fire was somewhat irrelevant. Autopsies reveal that 19 women and childrenwhonhad shot refuge in an “underground bunker” ( biried school bus) died from being crushed to death or buried alive. The video documents that this even occurred about an hour before the fire started. Even if allegations of the FBI torching the compound or firing weapons are unfounded, rsystematicly bulldozing an occupied building with a 60 ton tank is indiscriminate, deadlyforce.

              I bring all f this up because I expect Obama to renew the war on gun ownership with similar but even more horrific massacres.

        • James F says:

          The there is no mention of it until 9/26/2012, when Brenton at FDLE provided two reports to the prosecution on 9/26/2012.

          Brenton’s reports are not available to the public yet, AFAIK.

          • jello333 says:

            Actually, I think Brenton gave stuff to the prosecution way before that… like way back in March. But none of that was passed on to MOM/West until August. And then in September, they got some more info directly from Brenton. And, SURPRISE, SURPRISE… there was more and different stuff than what the prosecution had given them.

            • James F says:

              You are right jello333. Diwataman breaks it all down on his site.

              O’Mara tells us that the FDLE analyst, Steve Brenton, who was able to get into Trayvon’s cell phone but not completely, whether or not this is the phone found at the scene remains to be seen, made a complete report, including downloaded information from the phone, and on March 26th gave that report to FDLE Special Agent supervisor David Lee. Lee I would also like to remind you called off the latent print report on the phone found at the scene, the date of that report is March 20th. O’Mara had no knowledge of the report or analysis by Brenton and was able to find out about it only because he happened to be in the same building as Brenton on August 8th. Apparently Brenton just mentioned to O’Mara that he did an analysis on the phone. The impression O’Mara gives is that had Brenton not done that and/or had O’Mara not run into him O’Mara would have never known about the report. That’s only the beginning.

              Upon learning of this report O’Mara requested it from Corey’s office. On August 24th O’Mara says he received a disk with some files on it but no report. O’Mara again requested the information from Corey and this time there was no response at all. We’re just warming up folks.

              Apparently considering now that Corey will not be providing discovery to O’Mara he deposes Brenton on September 26th. Brenton testified to what he had done, showed O’Mara the report that he gave Lee and later provided O’Mara with a copy of that report. Funny thing though about the files from that report and the files Corey sent to O’Mara that were supposedly from that report; they didn’t match. How they “differ” as O’Mara put it is not mentioned and is why I say “possible” forgery. How could they possibly differ so much as to be mentioned in this motion? Clearly it must be significant enough to cause enough concern to look into the matter and given the State’s behavior on this case it should be taken with absolute seriousness.

              http://diwataman.wordpress.com/2012/10/15/omara-slams-the-state-hints-at-possible-forgery/

              • James F says:

                So the FDLE fingerprint analyst stated she was returning the phone back to SPD on 3/20, but then FDLE Brenton performed the analysis and files a report by 3/26?

                Did FDLE send it back to SPD or not? Why didn’t FDLE Supervisor Lee just have Myburgh give it Brenton instead of sending it back and forth to SPD? It seems there were a lot of shenanigans involving this phone.

                • jello333 says:

                  My guess is that it has something to do with what they were being told the significance of the phone was. Maybe, “This was the phone Trayvon was on just before he was shot”, vs “This is an unknown phone found at the scene”, vs “This is a phone that was on Tracy Martin’s account, but we don’t know if Trayvon had it or not”, etc. And who knows… there may have even been more than one phone involved in the testing, and MOM/West just weren’t informed about it. I don’t know if any of that could explain part of the weirdness going on, but my guess would be that the FDLE weren’t INTENTIONALLY playing games. Anything weird they did re. the phone(s?) was likely because of stuff they were being told by Corey or others. (Just my opinion, of course)

                • James F says:

                  FDLE Agent John Batchelor checked out the phone (dms-7) from SPD Property And Evidence at 09:23 on 3/20/2012 and then presumably passed it on to fingerprint analyst Myburgh. (page 41 of 284)

                  Myburgh received the sealed phone but is ordered not to test it. She composed a letter to SPD Chief Lee, informing him she is returning the sealed phone, dated 3/20/2012. (page 119 of 184)

                  However, SPD Property and Evidence Chain of Custody shows no further record of dms-7 after 3/20/2012.

                  Maybe this one of the “chain of custody issues” West and O’Mara previously alluded to.

                  • jello333 says:

                    And in some ways, considering all the confusion, it also lends even more credibility to the “two phones” theory.

              • jello333 says:

                GOD that makes me mad! I mean, I’ve seen it all before, but just reading it again… just… yep, some people seriously need to be prosecuted! (and no, I don’t mean George)

        • James F says:

          How could you, or the FBI conclude that Martin’s phone is irrelevant to their investigation, without analyzing it’s content for possible clues? Martin could have taken photos of one of George’s accomplices in a KKK outfit or audio/video of racial slurs.

        • dmoseylou says:

          IMO, TM’s phone should have been VERY relevant to the FBI. GZ was supposedly following TM. Did not one of the 21 agents think, “Hey, maybe TM took some pics of GZ chasing him with his gun out.” I am most curious as to WHO made that decision to NOT access that phone. Unbelievably sloppy work by the Feebs. Someone way high up in the FBI or DOJ handed down that decision.

          • jello333 says:

            We need some honest FBIers who aren’t afraid to go around their bosses, and just snoop around on their own. With all the cockatoos, the ghosts floating around the clubhouse, Mary Cutcher’s invisible crying baby, Dee Dee the grass whisperer…. it’s obvious Mulder and Scully need to come out of retirement.

  9. david says:

    Hello all! We have just reached our first goal of 150 signatures on the whitehouse petiton for a federal investigation into violations of George Zimmerman’s civil rights. The petition is now published publicly and is “searchable”. On to our next goal of making this a national media story! https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/launch-federal-investigation-malicious-prosecution-george-zimmerman-seminole-county-florida/TWv1G7lk

    • justfactsplz says:

      Thanks for your efforts. I would love to see a national media story telling how George is being maliciously prosecuted. Not likely though with the biased media. Good luck just the same. I find it hard to believe you only have that many signatures.

  10. david says:

    Whitehouse petition thank you letter from Robert Zimmerman Jr http://www.scribd.com/doc/114562218/Petition-Thank-You

  11. Here’s an interesting tidbit for people to chew on. Witness John will give evidence that when he observed Trayvon Martin assaulting Zimmerman he saw Trayvon Martin on top of Zimmerman, sitting (straddling) on Zimmerman’s midsection, and Trayvon Martin was swinging his arms and punching Zimmerman’s face, MMA style.

    Is there evidence on Trayvon Martin’s computer’s and accounts that he was watching this kind of stuff on YouTube and that’s where he learned what to do to Zimmerman, or practice on him?

    And by the way, Kimbo Slice lives in FL.

    http://litigationuniverse.com/TrayvonMartinMMAYouTubeSlice.wmv

    Also, not sure if this has been around, but I think DeeDee is MissBadification on YouTube. Here’s her pic:
    http://litigationuniverse.com/backgroundDeeDeePageImageYouTube.jpg
    And a video she may have made:
    http://litigationuniverse.com/DeeDeeVideoYouTubeMissBadification.wmv

  12. anwtex says:

    And there’s this from Wolfinger—-

    UPDATE: The office of State Attorney Norman Wolfinger released the following statement
    Monday at 4:09 p.m.:

    I am outraged by the outright lies contained in the letter by Benjamin Crump to Deputy Assistant Attorney General Roy Austin dated April 2, 2012. I encourage the Justice Department to investigate and document that no such meeting or communication occurred. I have been encouraging those spreading the irresponsible rhetoric to stop and allow State Attorney Angela Corey to complete her work. Another falsehood distributed to the media does nothing to forward that process.

    http://thegrio.com/2012/04/02/trayvon-martin-lawyers-want-feds-to-look-into-state-attorney-zimmerman-family-presence-on-february-2/

    • jordan2222 says:

      Thanks for posting that. This what I was talking about in one of my previous posts about George’s Dad being there for the “meeting.”

      How would Crump know about Serino wanting to charge George with manslaughter that early on in the case?

      Wonder if Crump or Wolfinger ever received replies to either of their letters? Wouldn’t those be available to the public since the letters were published online?

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