11-16 George Zimmerman Case – Open Discussion Thread

Use this thread as an open thread just for Zimmerman Case stuff. A place to just dump, collect, or discuss general information about the Trayvon Martin VS George Zimmerman Case.

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261 Responses to 11-16 George Zimmerman Case – Open Discussion Thread

  1. jello333 says:

    (I just posted the following comment in yesterday’s GZ thread. I didn’t realize what time it was, and that there was already a new thread up. So I wanna post it here too.)

    As much as I talk about this case with my wife, a couple days ago I realized that I had never sat her down and played the NEN and the “scream” call, while looking at the map and trying to explain all the little details. So I finally did it, giving her a bunch of background, and explaining how the calls and the map fit together. I kept pausing, rewinding, explaining… and just making sure every few seconds that she totally “got it”. It was all great, and she now understands a lot better than she did before. But one thing happened that was unexpected.

    As I played the “scream” tape, and showed her on the map how I think the final confrontation went down, I was just watching her out the corner of my eye. And as soon as the gunshot was heard, I turned it off, since there were no more screams or anything to be heard. I looked at her… and she was crying. She just shook her head and said, “Hearing George screaming like that. Not just screaming, almost crying and begging for someone to help him. And nobody came!” Her reaction almost made ME cry.

    • jordan2222 says:

      Well, Jello, let’s hope the next crying will be tears of joy so we can all “go home.” I’ve been lax in participating but have read most of the posts and noticed the site gets along just fine without me. LOL.

      I saw that Bernie made another mistake and wonder if Nelson will spank his ass or not but did not see anything about that list Crump was to provide.

      A lull in the case like this appears to give everyone an emotional recess as we crawl toward the next court drama in December.

      I hardly ever discuss the case with anyone any longer. It’s futile to try to explain it all in 5 minutes or less, which is about as much time as some folks are willing to invest. They all want the answer to one question only. Will he go free? Of course, most of them believe that he will and only want to know what’s taking so long.

      Maybe overall public interest has subsided.

    • myopiafree says:

      Hi Jello – I heard a lot of argument and “positions”. Until I heard the screams – I was not certain of anything. Once I heard them – I was certain it was George being beaten by Trayvon. Diwataman’s video of the entire sequence – was very valuable!!

    • David says:

      Trayvon was walking home from the store at night and in the rain minding his own business. Zimmerman sees Trayvon walking while he’s driving and begans to slowly follow and stalk Trayvon while in his truck for no reason what so ever. Trayvon noticed he was being slowly followed and stalked by some freak and gets a little scared and takes off running threw the apartment complex. Zimmerman gets out of his truck and chases after Trayvon with a loaded 9mm all for NO reason what so ever and Trayvon had did nothing wrong. Somewhere Zimmerman catches up to Trayvon and A fight ensues and Trayvon ” Stands His Ground” and defends himself from this freak that’s chasing after him at night and in the rain for NO reason what so ever. Zimmerman was losing the fight that he started and put himself in playing cop so he pulls out his 9mm and murders Trayvon. Hope you Zimmerman supporters can grasp the TRUTH. Either way Zimmerman is nothing but a murderer.

      • Sha says:

        David : Your full of crap. George was the neighborhood watch captain. It was his job to keep his eye’s open for stranger’s. If Trayvon wasn’t doing anything wrong he would have probably cared less who watched him . If he where scared he would have took his butt to Brandi’s in a hurry and by the way where were the adult’s that should have took him to the store in the rain…… and been somewhere around to keep an eye on him . Trayvon did do something wrong he attacked George with no mercy even when he sreamed. I am sorry that young man lost his life , I never like to give up on anyone young . George is not a murder never has been never will be . He took a life to save his own. If you can tell me that someone could attack you with out you defending your life I would be shocked. Oh! Hell Yea .. I’m a GZ supporter all the way. !!! and YOU WOULDN’t KNOW THE TRUTH IF IT BIT YOU ON YOUR BUTT…

      • John Galt says:

        Is that the new official Trayvonista story? Pretty good, except for a complete lack of supporting evidence and radical inconsistency with the crime scene distances and timeline.

      • James F says:

        1. There was a well documented crime wave in the area and city officials, including the mayor and police chief, specifically requested citizens to report any suspicious activity. George was the official NHW captain and although he was not on duty at the time, he felt it was his civic responsibility to report suspicious activity.

        2. Martin was spotted trespassing on private property, exactly where an attempted burglary had recently taken place, and the perpetrator was a young adult black male. Martin fit that description. George also reported that the suspect appeared to be under the influence. Martin was confirmed to have THC in his system during the autopsy.

        3. George did not stalk anybody. Not even the malicious prosecution has alleged stalking.

        • James F says:

          “Let’s talk about the elephant in the room. I’m black, OK?” the woman said, declining to be identified because she anticipated backlash due to her race. She leaned in to look a reporter directly in the eyes. “There were black boys robbing houses in this neighborhood,” she said. “That’s why George was suspicious of Trayvon Martin.”

          Read more: http://globalgrind.com/news/george-zimmerman-childhood-photos-new-information#ixzz2CQ5WlueZ

          “The public needs to call us if they see anything suspicious. When you see something that doesn’t look right, call us out there,” he said.

          “The police officers can’t do it all by themselves. We need your eyes and ears to let us know when things are going on,” the chief said. “It truly is a partnership.”

          Read more: The Sanford Herald – Crime surge alarms residents
          http://mysanfordherald.com/view/full_story/15669817/article-Crime-surge-alarms-residents?

        • loulou says:

          2. Martin was spotted trespassing on private property, exactly where an attempted burglary had recently taken place, and the perpetrator was a young adult black male. Martin fit that description.

          Wrong, there was no burglary at Taaffe’s house. True GZ claimed that a man arrested a couple of days later was the same he watched there. Fact is, George watched someone on Feb.2, 2012, and followed him. He called back to 911 to give the precise location. Taaffe had left both the door unlocked and the windows open. GZ states he observed the man looking into the open windows. This guy simply moved on. The arrest on a later day didn’t happen because of any activities by the NW but due to a call by roofers working on the premises.

      • ftsk420 says:

        How do you know he was minding his own business? stalked? have you ever looked up the definition of it? So TM stood his ground huh guess what the moment he had a chance to flee legally that is what he was supposed to do. The moment George screamed is the moment he gave up the fight and legally TM was supposed to stop he didn’t he continued to commit a felony which gave George the right to defend himself. TM supporters can’t grasp the concept of the law. Since you are on this site look back through the past few days of posts and see exactly how dumb the people are you aligned yourself with. 70% of TM supporters think he’s in jail charged with life.

      • Alexandra M. says:

        Hey David,
        That false script of yours seems to (still) be making the rounds on the web. I’ve see that same story nearly word for word from the same dumb Trayvonistas (( YAWN )). Please try something else–stretch yourself–do some CURRENT research on the case and use this little ‘ol technique known as “thinking for yourself”.

      • John Galt says:

        Notice that Dee Dee no longer factors in to the official Trayvonista tale. “He right by his fatha house”. Ooops.

        “Somewhere Zimmerman catches up to Trayvon”

        Witnesses and physical evidence indicate that the beating started near the T.

      • dexter says:

        Zimmerman had called to report Martin, so he knew the cops could arrive at any time. Since patrol cars listen in to these calls, if a cruiser had been in the area, the cops coiuld have been there before Zimmerman got off the phone. Since Zimmerman had to know this, you would think it would be an inhibiting factor in deciding to shoot someone, plus the fact he didn’t know if someone, or more than one person, would simply look out the window and witness the entire event.

      • jello333 says:

        You know what? I agree with you completely. That part where you said, “I know absolutely nothing about this case, except for the fact that Trayvon was a wee, innocent child walking home with his candy.” You’re exactly right… that IS about your level of “knowledge”, though I’m pretty surprised to see someone like you admit to it. Uh, what?… you DIDN’T say that? Well, that’s ok, I’ll just assume that’s what you were THINKING as you typed out your scenario. So anyway, thanks…. I’ve learned a lot.

      • Chip Bennett says:

        Where is your evidence of any of this narrative?

        No? Don’t have any? Yeah, I didn’t think so. None of you ever do.

    • sunnieday7 says:

      George told police he didn’t know he shot Trayvon and that he was screaming so the police could find him. Why did the screaming stop suddenly and abruptly immediately after the gunshot if it was George doing the screaming? His reasons for screaming don’t line up with the story he told the police, that he didn’t know he if he shot Trayvon and he was hoping the police would locate him by him by his screaming. So why did he stop screaming after he fired his gun if he didn’t know if he shot Trayvon and the police weren’t on the scene? Just curious.

      • Sha says:

        sunnieday7: Maybe he quit sreaming because Trayvon quit hitting him after the shot was fired. Also He knew a shot was fired but couldn’t have knew where it landed.

        • sunnieday7 says:

          George told the police he was screaming for help to restrain Trayvon and also so the police could locate him. He didn’t say he was screaming because Trayvon was hitting him. George’s story about why he was screaming is why I am wonder why the screaming stopped after the gunshot.

          • Sha says:

            sunnieday7 : I remember the part about he was screaming for someone to help him and so the police could locate him but not about him screaming for someone to help restrain Trayvon.

          • ftsk420 says:

            help to restrain Trayvon when? after the shot?

            • sunnieday7 says:

              Yes. George told the police he didn’t know if he missed Trayvon after he fired the gun because Trayvon sat up and spoke saying something like you got me. He also sat on top of Trayvon after the shot and pulled his arms out hoping to restrain him.

        • ftsk420 says:

          I have said it a million times and these TM supporters don’t get it. A shot going off that close shock sets in fast not to mention the loss of hearing and the flash. I would demonstrate for them if they like.

          • Alexandra M. says:

            Hence the reason for heavy-duty ear protection at the gun range!

            • ftsk420 says:

              Exactly. George probably had problems hearing for months after this happen. When you fire a gun at the range the gun is extended away from your body but when George fired it was extremely close the bang made him deaf I know it did. I went shooting with a friend of mine at the range I was shooting a .44 mag and like a dummy didn’t wear ear protection. My hearing was screwed up for about 3 months after.

        • Alexandra M. says:

          It is George screaming…..no doubt about it.
          Tracy Martin was initially honest with the cops when he said that the screaming WAS NOT TRAYVON. Then of course, the money/shakedown race hustlers got to him.

      • John Galt says:

        So in your version, Trayvon knocked GZ on his azz, breaking his nose, mounted on top, and then screamed for help for around a minute while beating the crap out of GZ?

        • sunnieday7 says:

          I don’t have a version of what happened. I am wondering about George’s version of why he was screaming (to get help to restrain George and to help the police locate him) and why the screaming stopped immediately after the gunshot. I also don’t see how Trayvon beat the crap out of George without getting any DNA, blood or wounds on his body. These are questions I have that make me wonder what actually happened. Don’t you ever question the story when new evidence comes out?

          • ftsk420 says:

            There is no reason to question the story because the evidence always backs up Zimmerman story. So you don’t think TM punched him in the face and you don’t think he mounted him? honestly I have been in plenty of fights and never got a drop of blood on me from the other person. Again have you ever had a gun go off around you? I have and the one thing I always notice is the silence after.

            • sunnieday7 says:

              The lack of DNA and injuries to Trayvon’s hands makes me question the story and that is part of evidence that doesn’t seem to back Zimmerman’s story. I don’t know how you can repeatedly punch someone while mounted on him wearing a long-sleeved over-sized hoodie and the person you are punching has a bloody nose and head and not get blood somewhere on your clothes or bruises or injuries to your hands. Do you? As far as the gun going off and the silence, if you don’t know you shot someone for sure as George said and are in fear for your life and want the police to find you, why would you stop screaming?

              • James F says:

                Again, Martin DID HAVE GEORGE’S BLOOD AND DNA ON HIS CLOTHES. Get your facts straight.

                • sunnieday7 says:

                  Could you give me a link where you found that George’s blood and DNA was on Trayvon. Thanks.

                  • ftsk420 says:

                    I for one won’t give a link to anything. There is months worth of evidence on this site just search it. I think you are here for other reasons we have gone through this before. That’s the reason you should research on your own.

              • John Galt says:

                “The lack of DNA and injuries to Trayvon’s hands makes me question the story and that is part of evidence that doesn’t seem to back Zimmerman’s story.”

                Mark on TM’s knuckle, GZ broken nose and head injuries, multiple witnesses testify that TM was on top. All evidence that backs GZ’s story. The only thing I wonder about is why he only shot him once.

              • ftsk420 says:

                It seems like to think this whole thing took along time it was a matter of seconds after TM was shot that the police showed up. What I remember was George said TM punched him then mounted him then slammed his head on the ground. So if he slammed his head and didn’t punch him that would answer your question. Zimmerman had a broken nose which was the result of the punch and cuts to the back of his head which was the result of his head being slammed into the ground. There is a witness drawing that depicts exactly that go look it up.

            • arkansasmimi says:

              FTSK420, your exactly right on the silence right after. Have hunters in my family, matter of fact been to deer camp recently. Not only that, but the close prox of this happening, I am sure GZ ears were ringing too.

          • James F says:

            Martin did have George’s blood and DNA on his body.
            Martin’s hands were never tested, just fingernail scrapings. Trayvons body sat out in the rain on the wet ground for hours and his hand were never bagged to protect any DNA and blood evidence from being washed away.

          • Chip Bennett says:

            So, Zimmerman’s wounds and injuries were self-inflicted? Or maybe there was an unknown, third person involved?

            Also: you don’t know that Martin didn’t have any of Zimmerman’s DNA on his body. You don’t know, because it wasn’t tested anywhere other than under Martin’s fingernails. (PROTIP: the under-fingernails DNA testing is generally done to determine if the owner of said fingernails was acting in self-defense; so a lack of Zimmerman’s DNA under Martin’s fingernails is not dispositive to Zimmerman’s claim of self defense.)

            • jello333 says:

              I’m sure one thing our new visitors will want to know, is why you and I and the other GZ supporters always leave out the cockatoo. If we had nothing to fear, if we had no doubts about our belief in George’s story, we wouldn’t just conveniently leave out the whole cockatoo scenario. Anyway, just wanted to throw that out there, because it’s only a matter of time before we’re asked, right to our faces: WHY ARE YOU AFRAID TO TALK ABOUT THE COCKATOO?!

              (so now we all have time to prepare our answers, and not be caught flat-footed)

        • ftsk420 says:

          So poor little Trayvon was so scared he punched someone in the face and screamed for help while beating his ass for at least a minute. Why didn’t poor little Trayvon run after he punched the big bad scary white dude. We know how close he was to home.

      • ftsk420 says:

        George started screaming the moment TM punched him in the nose. If you go back to the recording it’s 45 sec worth of screaming. Have you ever had a gun go off anywhere near you? it’s called shock. Answer this one we know TM was on top of George beating the shit out of him have you ever seen anyone who is winning a fight scream for help. Some people like to say George had his gun out which is why TM screamed but again 45 sec of screaming at gun point I wave the bs flag on that. There is no way someone is screaming that long at gun point. First thing people so when having a gun pointed at them is stfu cause the last thing you want is for the person with the gun to shoot you. Now listen to George speak in his interviews then listen to the 911 calls it’s his voice. Then go look at the 7-11 video of TM and when he answers the phone you can see he has a deep voice. Now the Martins and Crump haven’t said much about that tape because they know it wan’t TM screaming. Go back and watch Alicia Martin on DR Phil the moment she hears that 911 call she has no emotion to the screams.

      • James F says:

        Maybe he was in a state of shock and stunned by the loud gun? It is very traumatic to be assaulted and forced to defend yourself by shooting your attacker. The last scream was a while before the actual shot.

      • John Galt says:

        “So why did he stop screaming after he fired his gun if he didn’t know if he shot Trayvon and the police weren’t on the scene?”

        Trayvon stopped beating him and/or beating his head against the concrete.

      • diwataman says:

        Hmmmm, this is a tough one. Why did George stop yelling? Gosh, I’m stumped. Let me just take a stab at it and I’m just spitballin’ here but perhaps George stopped yelling because someone finally came out. Yes, I’m sure I heard that somewhere. Of course if you’re really interested in such things you would know that from the statements of George and the other witnesses. But hey, who needs to do the work when you have us good folks to give you all the answers.

        • sunnieday7 says:

          I don’t have as much invested to study the case like you and your posters. I asked a simple question because I have read conflicting reports from witnesses and even George’s story is confusing. I can’t figure how or why the prosecution has come up with 2nd degree murder charges so I thought maybe I could learn more. I listened to the screams and saw George’s reenactment the next day and he seemed okay for a guy who was beat so badly he feared for his life. If you would prefer all support posts and no questions regarding the story, I will be happy to stop posting here. But in the meantime posters are doing George a disservice by calling people who ask questions that the jury will ask trolls or “fishy”. These are legitimate questions that the jury will be asking.

          • ftsk420 says:

            How should have he reacted the next day? Ever been in a fight?

            • sunnieday7 says:

              I have never been in a fight where I felt my life was threatened by being suffocated or my head beaten into concrete. I have been an automobile accident where the next day I could barely move because of aches and pains that set in. I also went to the hospital because I thought I had whiplash and my neck was so sore I could not move it. I have never killed anyone but if I did I doubt I would be up to reenacting the scenario. I don’t get George but would like to believe him. I am just having a hard time reconciling his story of screaming.

              • ftsk420 says:

                In any fight you should fear for your life the person fighting you isn’t trying to be friends. Anything can happen in a fight one punch can kill you. There is aches and pains once the adrenaline wears off. I have been in fights and the aches and pains didn’t show up till 2 or 3 days later. George did what he thought was right to clear his name and prove it was a good shoot. What were you expecting George to act like the next day?

          • diwataman says:

            It’s not about support posts, I’ll take any challenge out there regarding this case. You said “George told police…” If you know what George told police you would know what I and others are talking about because it’s in the first audio statement he gave. But instead you come with what you think makes George a liar. If you were of genuine curiosity you could just simply ask but you come with the typical supposed “got ya” moments we’ve heard for months. Now you add the typical “he seemed okay for a guy who was beat so badly he feared for his life”. Soon you’ll bring up George getting out of his truck, chasing Trayvon and George saying “coons”. Things that have been covered ad nauseam for eight months.

            • sunnieday7 says:

              It is about support posts y’all want and you need to admit it. I ask questions and I am a troll, a person who uses 3 screen names, fishy. The reason I am called these names is because I asked questions that make the George supporters uneasy with the questions. I am only asking the same questions that the jury will in deciding George’s fate.

              I don’t care about George saying coons. I think punks is bad enough. I am sure that will be entertained by jury members as to George’s frame of mind and attitude toward Trayvon before there was even an altercation. That’s not a got ya moment, that is a fact.

              You are very defensive and insulting but not very enlightening and not helpful to George at all.

              • diwataman says:

                I’m not uneasy with any of it. And that’s your problem. You think you got a line on this thing yet at the same time you try to frame it from a position innocent ignorance. If you think I have not been enlightening in this case than you know nothing about me to even lay that charge. I could care less if I’m helpful to George.

              • ftsk420 says:

                Punks is bad enough? are you drunk. What’s wrong with saying punks. Again I repeat I never called you a troll or said you use different screen names I did answer your question many times and even asked you one.

                • sunnieday7 says:

                  Calling a person an effing punk vs an effing coon shows a mindset and that will be considered. I do wonder if that is part of the reason George is charged with 2nd degree murder. You gave me your opinion. Others called me names and suggested I might be using 3 screen names or a troll or fishy. You obviously read the answers to my questions. I am just asking the questions as the jury will.

                  Are you drunk? Isn’t that about as insulting as those calling me a troll or fishy or a user with 3 names. Nice deflection though quite obvious to those who use their brains instead of emotions.

                  • ftsk420 says:

                    It really was an honest question you could be drunk the way you keep repeating the question over and over even though you have been given the answer. What mind set does it show? annoyance? frustration? I would be pissed off to if there was multiple break ins and home invasions and I spot someone who looks suspicious and I know deep down inside that they always get away. If it was me on the phone my language would have been a lot different I also never would have allowed TM to get anywhere near me once he put his hands in his waistband. The moment he did that I would have either shot him or beat him till the police showed up. Putting your hoodie up and reaching in your waistband is an aggressive movement that can get you killed.

                  • sunnieday7 says:

                    You are insulting as the people who call me a troll. I ask questions and it makes people uncomfortable who support George so they resort to name-calling. It is low-level which I did not expect here with all the prayers, etc. I came to get an explanation as to why the gunshot silenced the person who claims he wanted to get the police to where he was and he wanted to get help to restrain Trayvon who he claims he did not know was shot dead.

                    I am saying calling someone an effing punk or azzhole suggests a mindset that could lead a jury to not believe George Zimmerman may not be innocent and will not believe his conflicting stories. I would like to know how O’Mara can prove George had an absence of malice after hearing him on the NEN phone call calling Trayvon a suspect, an effing punk and an azzhole.

                    I suspect you already know why these questions are being raised unless you are drunk because you seemed the most intelligent poster here until the drunk insult.

                  • ftsk420 says:

                    sunnieday7 says:
                    November 16, 2012 at 7:10 pm
                    You are insulting as the people who call me a troll.

                    Not really when I insult people it’s way different. like I said it was an honest question. You asked the same question like 10 times I know I answered you atleast 5 times and each time you only repeated the question. I have seen many drunk people do the same thing. I don’t know if you are sipping the hard stuff while surfing the net and there isn’t anything wrong with it if you are. I just wanna know why you continue to ask the same question over and over even though you already have an answer. I’m so far from being the most intelligent poster here which further proves you aren’t paying attention.

                  • sunnieday7 says:

                    I’m paying attention and I would suggest not to project your drinking habits onto other posters. This is a very weird place and I have an opinion of the George supports that is not good. Y’all insult when there is no answer. Y’all are paranoid also in that you think the only person who comes here and asks questions must be drunk or develop multiple screen names. So I will leave you with the rest of the insulting supporters of George and drop you down a level to a paranoid supporter who can’t wrap their brain around the fact that George is charged with 2nd degree murder and not without evidence to support it. I don’t know if he will be convicted but he has pretty much ruined his life. And you can hide behind Alan Dershowitz but y’all still have to deal with the prosecution and the jury who will listen to the NEN calls, see the timelines and judge George. It really isn’t about me or you or the Martin or Zimmerman family. It’s about evidence, witnesses and forensics. If I were a betting person, I would think that NEN phone call is going to put George at a definite disadvantage when it comes to the jurors.

                  • Liberals USED to be the optimistic ones says:

                    Ah, but the jurors dont get to ask questions. But few trayvonites have any clue about how courts actually operate

                  • Chip Bennett says:

                    @sunnieday7:

                    I would like to know how O’Mara can prove George had an absence of malice after hearing him on the NEN phone call calling Trayvon a suspect, an effing punk and an azzhole.

                    In what legal system does O’Mara have to prove “absence of malice”? Here in the US legal system, Zimmerman is afforded the presumption of innocence, and it is the prosecution that bears the burden of proof that Zimmerman acted maliciously.

                    Also: the NEN call itself is prima facie evidence that Zimmerman was not acting maliciously. What person about to commit second-degree murder calls the police beforehand, and asks for them to show up? Further: Zimmerman’s demeanor during the phone call refutes any claim of depravity of mind. He saw someone suspicious, called to report it, and discussed/dealt with it by-and-large objectively.

                    Oh, and just for good measure: no jury will ever hear this case. Zimmerman will be granted immunity.

                  • sunnieday7 says:

                    “What person about to commit second-degree murder calls the police beforehand, and asks for them to show up?”

                    I don’t think George planned second-degree murder. Actually to be honest, I don’t think George seems to be mentally stable but that is an unprofessional opinion after seeing his failures, debt problems and other factors with his family.. Maybe he was under stress from not graduating or achieving his goals. Maybe he was trying to prove something to his friend Mark Osterman or to his family who he was reported to be estranged from. I think George may have gotten caught up in a situation and also had preconceived notions about suspicious people. I can’t get into George’s mind but he seems a very troubled individual. Unfortunately his troubles ended up with a 2nd degree murder charge and this will forever change his life whether he is convicted or freed.

                  • jello333 says:

                    “I can’t get into George’s mind but he seems a very troubled individual.”

                    Umm… really? In what way? I mean, I’m sure that NOW he’s got a bit of PTSD going on… who wouldn’t. But before this event, and what he’s been put through? What do you see as evidence that he was/is a “very troubled individual”? All I see are very occasional, minor things scattered throughout his life…. stuff not much different than the vast majority of all people might experience. So, care to elaborate?

              • jello333 says:

                Just some advice, and this will save a lot of time regarding your questions of how this or that would look/sound to jurors: This will never get to that point. This case will NEVER been heard by a jury. It will end at the immunity hearing (or on appeal from that hearing, if Judge Nelson isn’t courageous enough to rule correctly). Actually, considering what we now see going down, there’s a chance it won’t even make it to the immunity hearing. Right now it appears that MOM/West have two goals in mind: One is to get George exonerated; the other is to hold certain individuals accountable for what they’ve done. And it’s that 2nd part that very well might end this case early. Once Crump, Jackson, Bernie, and others start fearing for their OWN criminal culpability, their focus is suddenly gonna shift away from George, and they’ll be THRILLED to see this case just fade away.

                Did you know all that? I’m not trying to be smart here… I’m seriously asking. Because most people who are the JQ type (not saying that’s you) don’t seem to realize where this whole thing is heading. They are delusional in their belief that George is gonna be convicted of anything.

                • sunnieday7 says:

                  “Once Crump, Jackson, Bernie, and others start fearing for their OWN criminal culpability, their focus is suddenly gonna shift away from George, and they’ll be THRILLED to see this case just fade away.”

                  What exactly is their criminal culpability jello?

                  • ftsk420 says:

                    True colors shining through. Keep posting you are only showing the true purpose of your visit here.

                  • ftsk420 says:

                    Wait are you BlackSheep?

                  • jello333 says:

                    A major part of it is everything surrounding Dee Dee. I’ll wager a great deal of money (even though I don’t have it ;) ) that before long we’ll find out that there was some serious coaching, manipulations, fabrications, and outright lies going on re. Dee Dee. Yes, I’m saying that most of her story was CREATED by Crump and others for the sole purpose of railroading George. And the Dee Dee stuff has tentacles reaching into other aspects of this case. I think we’ll also see questions start to surface about Chad, and why he’s said what he’s said (and others have said about him). Another problem area for Crump, BDLR, and others is how much they know about Serino, and why he did what he did… including “pressure” (threats?) he was under from other cops… and again, WHY that all went down. There are very likely others involved. Think Triplett, think Bonaparte, think (of course) Sharpton and their ilk. Get used to hearing the word “conspiracy” used in re. this case.

                  • Sha says:

                    sunnydaze7: I couldn’t respond above but here it is. I don’t think you are anyone else has the right to judge GZ’s life are how he lived it up until this point. You I’m sure are not perfect yourself. Let’s put your entire life out there and see how good you look……..
                    George is just a man he is not perfect and does not claim to be. If having debt problems made people look bad there would be alot of them right now . Most people that judge others harshly have something to hide themselves.

                  • jordan2222 says:

                    Sha:
                    I think sunnieday7 was banished to Pitcairn Island by ‘AdRem and has no internet access.

              • Chip Bennett says:

                Uneasy? Hardly; especially with respect to the objective, empirical evidence in this case. Every single bit of it supports Zimmerman’s legal right to use of lethal force in self defense.

                If you have any evidence to refute any pertinent part of Zimmerman’s testimony, we’ll gladly hear it. (Note: theories, narratives, insinuations, and minor inconsistencies that are inconsequential and immaterial to the essential timeline of events do not constitute “evidence”.)

                The reason you may find yourself subject to a cold reception here is simply that we have spent the last six months dealing with drive-by commenters who pose exactly the same questions that you came here asking. Since none of those questions ever have merit, or alter the fundamentals of the case, dealing with them ad nauseum becomes tedious.

                Whether or not Zimmerman thought Martin was a “punk” has no bearing on his legal right to self-defense.

                The moment Martin committed felony aggravated battery against Zimmerman, by sucker-punching him and breaking his nose, Zimmerman had a legal right to use of lethal force in self-defense.

                The moment Martin established disparity of force by knocking him to the ground, climbing on top of him, and pinning him to the ground, Zimmerman had a legal right to use of lethal force in self defense.

                The moment Zimmerman reasonably feared risk to his life or imminent bodily harm because Martin was pummeling him, knocking his head into the ground several times, and preventing him from escaping, Zimmerman had a legal right to use of lethal force in self defense.

                The applicable Florida statutes are clear. The physical evidence and witness testimony are clear. George Zimmerman had a legal right to the use of lethal force in self defense.

                • sunnieday7 says:

                  “The moment Martin committed felony aggravated battery against Zimmerman, by sucker-punching him and breaking his nose, Zimmerman had a legal right to use of lethal force in self-defense.”

                  But we must accept George’s word for him being sucker punched and breaking his nose. BTW, how did George self-diagnose a broken nose at the scene. Why didn’t he want to get immediate medical attention for his broken nose and head being crashed into cement? These are questions I am sure jurors will ask as well as me. And above all, why would Trayvon want to attack George? There is no logical reason that Trayvon ran from him (per NEN call) and then decided he wanted to fight him on a Sunday evening in a residential area with a lot of witnesses.

                  Just trying to get down to the logic of why George’s and Trayvon’s paths crossed and it ended in a death and 2nd degree murder charges.

                  • Chip Bennett says:

                    Really? Really?!? This is the best you’ve got?

                    But we must accept George’s word for him being sucker punched and breaking his nose.

                    No, we mustn’t. We can look at the medical report that confirms a broken nose. We can look at pictures of his swollen face. We can look at witness testimony about Zimmerman’s physical state.

                    Earth to Sunnieday: Martin broke Zimmerman’s nose.

                    BTW, how did George self-diagnose a broken nose at the scene.

                    Why do you think that Zimmerman needs to have “self-diagnosed” a broken nose at the scene?

                    Why didn’t he want to get immediate medical attention for his broken nose and head being crashed into cement?

                    Perhaps because he was in shock? Perhaps because he had no insurance?

                    Regardless: how is such a question germane to Zimmerman’s self-defense claim?

                    These are questions I am sure jurors will ask as well as me.

                    Jurors will never deliberate this case. Jurors will never hear this case. Zimmerman will be granted immunity.

                    And above all, why would Trayvon want to attack George? There is no logical reason that Trayvon ran from him (per NEN call) and then decided he wanted to fight him on a Sunday evening in a residential area with a lot of witnesses.

                    Sure. Keep telling yourself that.

                    The fact remains: Martin did reach the proximity of his home, and did return to accost Zimmerman. (It’s right there in DeeDee’s testimony.) Martin did verbally accost Zimmerman, and then physically assaulted him. (There is no physical evidence or witness testimony that Zimmerman ever laid a finger on Martin, before the fatal gunshot.)

                    All evidence and testimony points to Martin as the aggressor in this case.

                    Why was he the aggressor? It doesn’t really matter. But Martin’s aggression legally justified Zimmerman’s use of lethal force in self defense.

                  • ftsk420 says:

                    “Why didn’t he want to get immediate medical attention for his broken nose and head being crashed into cement”

                    He was treated at the scene how much more immediate do you want. So glad you said TM had no reason to attack George because we know he did attack George. I do think that’s about enough fail out of you for one day. Bye now be sure to tell the rest of the TM supporters you like many other failed miserably at the troll attempt.

              • raiikun says:

                No, you really aren’t asking anything to make anyone uneasy, as you haven’t asked anything that doesn’t have a clear answer for yet that’s absolutely consistent with the Defense’s claims.

                The screaming stopped at the gunshot because loud noises generally cause everyone to become immediately silent (Make a sudden loud noise like that at a party for instance and see how silent the room is immediately after). Then when George said he was asking for help to restrain him, there’s no reason to assume that was loud enough to get picked up by the phone at the distance he was from W11.

                We don’t know what was or was not on Trayvon’s hands as far as DNA or blood goes, as they weren’t tested.

                I agree that George probably wasn’t punched as many times as he felt like he was…but when you have a broken nose like that and head injuries, any slightest touch on the nose immediately after would frickin hurt and I have no doubt he’d feel like he was taking another punch to the face.

                And so on. You’re going on about stuff that the Defense will have NO trouble making clear for a jury.

                • jello333 says:

                  “I agree that George probably wasn’t punched as many times as he felt like he was…but when you have a broken nose like that and head injuries, any slightest touch on the nose immediately after would frickin hurt and I have no doubt he’d feel like he was taking another punch to the face.”

                  Exactly right. I don’t know why these people have SO much trouble understanding that simple fact: The number of times George FELT he was hit, or his head was beat into the ground, or the length of time he was “suffocated”, may not be 100% in line with the ACTUAL number of times and severity. It’s all about his PERCEPTION of what was happening, his FEAR at the time, and whether that perception and fear was “reasonable” under the circumstances. I don’t see how ANYONE can claim they wouldn’t have had similar fears and perceptions as George if they were faced with the same situation.

          • maggiemoowho says:

            I don’t think this will even make it to trial. GZ should be acquitted at the SYG hearing.
            The prosecution would have to prove GZ guilt “beyond a reasonable doubt”(which they can’t do, because they don’t have any evidence other than cough,cough DeDe) at trial, at the Stand Your Ground hearing, GZ only has to prove his defense by a preponderance of the evidence, which is essentially the lowest standard of proof the law recognizes. With all the evidence Supporting GZ, he should be acquitted and that acquittal will make him immune to any and all civil suits related to this case.

          • Liberals USED to be the optimistic ones says:

            I really wish you would take the ftsk420 challenge….oh please, please, please….

          • Liberals USED to be the optimistic ones says:

            You began with a packaged narrative that is far from the facts of the case (and you act as if George is required to explain any and every possible inconsistency that you can dream up in your vivid imagination). You are not here to learn about this case from us or you wouldnt have begun with your interpretation of events. In that case, you would have begun with questions about actual evidence

      • Liberals USED to be the optimistic ones says:

        George took days and days with the the nice officers, answering their questions, even though he did NOT have to. He did so withOUT the assistance of a lawyer (even though that was his right). From now on, the prosecutors must piece this together and prove something (George can take the 5th from here on in or be cross examined at trial if he decides to take the stand). All YOUR conjecture is worth less than a hill of beans without proof.
        Heck, George had been willing to drive all the way to Jax to meet with bernie de la rionda AGAINST the advice of his lawyers to answer his moronic questions.
        At worst, George is guilty of having a bad memory after a traumatic event which is not yet even a misdemeanor in this state since most folks have memory lapses at such traumatic moments. As this case evolves, I bet we will find out that most of the scheme team has a pretty fragile memory I imagine.

      • jello333 says:

        Oh Jesus, give it up please. Everyone KNOWS it wasn’t Trayvon screaming. Even Tracy and Sybrina know it wasn’t him. They even said so…. well maybe not with their words so much as their actions. Just watch them during the 2nd bond hearing, when the “scream” tape is played in court. Just watch Tracy and Sybrina. No emotion, other than maybe a little boredom…. a look of “not this again, come on let’s move this along”. Are you telling me those people sat there listening to what YOU claim is Trayvon, crying, screaming, PLEADING for his life, only to be shot anyway…. they sat there and showed NO reaction, NO emotion? Yeah right. Sorry, Tracy and Sybrina KNOW who was screaming, and they KNOW it wasn’t Trayvon. Oh, and if you think those screams (from George!) were nothing more than, “Over here officer, I’m over here, just follow my screams”, well, you’d better listen again. Some of those screams were TERROR.

        • sunnieday7 says:

          “Oh, and if you think those screams (from George!) were nothing more than, “Over here officer, I’m over here, just follow my screams”, well, you’d better listen again. Some of those screams were TERROR.”

          I am going by what George said why he was screaming. He didn’t say he was terrorized. He said he wanted the police to know his location and he wanted a neighbor to help him restrain Trayvon. Should I not believe George?

          • ftsk420 says:

            George told the police when they arrived that he screamed for help and nobody would help him. Again the screams won’t see the court room.

          • Chip Bennett says:

            I am going by what George said why he was screaming. He didn’t say he was terrorized.

            Okay, you just outed yourself. Either you’ve not actually listened to the screams, or else you’re being intellectually dishonest. Either way, your presence here is a waste of time.

          • raiikun says:

            They sound like screams of pain to me as well (and one of the witnesses who was there told the media too that they were screams of someone in pain).

            And since the screaming happened during the same period that Trayvon was on top of George with George sustaining painful injuries, that’s further reason to conclude that it was George screaming.

      • Chip Bennett says:

        Why do you think it matters why Zimmerman was screaming?

        George told police he didn’t know he shot Trayvon and that he was screaming so the police could find him. Why did the screaming stop suddenly and abruptly immediately after the gunshot if it was George doing the screaming?

        Okay, I’ll bite.

        Zimmerman wanted the police to hear him screaming so that they would come and stop the felony aggravated battery being committed against him. Once that battery escalated to the point that Zimmerman reasonably feared for his life or for imminent bodily harm, and Zimmerman was forced to use lethal force in self defense, he no longer had need of the police to come end the felony aggravated battery being committed against him.

        So: got any more great stumpers about Zimmerman’s testimony?

  2. Preston says:

    Just for fun..

  3. Preston says:

    here is a good news post

    Twitter users in breach of libel laws will be punished, government warns
    Twitter and Facebook users who libel individuals on the internet will face the same punishment as newspaper editors in breach of the law, the government has warned.

    Read more: http://www.metro.co.uk/news/917808-twitter-users-in-breach-of-libel-laws-will-be-punished-government-warns#ixzz2CNUlFk9j

    Social network users who ‘blacken’ the name of public figures online could face court action, justice secretary Chris Grayling told MPs today.
    It comes following a Newsnight report which mistakenly implicated Lord McAlpine in a child abuse scandal, leading to the resignation of BBC director general George Entwistle.
    It also prompted ITV presenter Phillip Schofield to ambush David Cameron with a list of alleged paedophiles he had found on the internet on live TV.
    Mr Grayling said he is ‘as concerned as anybody else about what has taken place over the last two weeks’.
    He added: ‘It is utterly, utterly wrong that anybody should have their name blackened, inappropriately and falsely, on any form of social media.
    ‘The laws of libel apply equally to what you publish on your Facebook page or Twitter page as they do in a printed form.
    ‘Those who are damaged in that way have full legal redress to try and get proper justice.’

    George Entwistle was BBC director-general for under two months (Picture: EPA)
    The BBC launched an immediate inquiry into the fiasco which found the programme had failed to carry out ‘basic journalistic checks’ before airing its controversial report.
    Conservative MP Conor Burns said it was important Lord Justice Leveson addresses the regulation of websites when he delivers his report into media standards next month.
    ‘At the moment you have got this situation where newspapers are rightly constrained by libel and defamation laws but people are linking to the stories through the internet and spreading vile and heinous lies about people, who have no right of redress,’ he said.
    ‘Lord McAlpine’s reputation was in tatters last week because people were able to post things with complete impunity on the internet.
    ‘We are going to have to bring Facebook and Twitter under the same laws as libels committed by newspapers or television channels.’

    Read more: http://www.metro.co.uk/news/917808-twitter-users-in-breach-of-libel-laws-will-be-punished-government-warns#ixzz2CNV5OLaX

    • TandCrumpettes says:

      Is this only for public figures? Facebook has gotten out of hand all around.

      I’m not sure if this would be considered “libel,” because the person wasn’t identified by name, but one of my friends “shared” a photo of a US police officer pepper spraying a child. The caption explained that the people “didn’t do anything” and it was a clear case of police brutality…so share this photo a million times and try to identify this creep so he can be brought to justice!

      Well, I thought that sounded mighty shady so I looked it up. The photo was, in fact, real, but the incident happened somewhere else…Chile, the Dominican Republic, I forgot. I politely commented on the photo and informed my friend that this fellow is not a US police officer.

      She DELETED my comment! So much for seeking truth, eh?

      There’s another one going around now where some guy is holding a dog up by its neck, burying it in sand, etc. “Share and identify the guy…” blah blah blah. I haven’t looked this one up yet, but I can’t think of an innocent reason why someone would hold their dog like that. Still, there is a still picture of him alone, and who knows if that guy is actually the same guy holding the dog? And who knows if this is like the other photo – this is from Chile, the Dominican Republic, whatever. But people take it as 100% truth and share it anyway.

      Facebook is the worst when it comes to George. Early on I corrected so many people, I eventually gave up trying. I once answered the question, “What was so suspicious about Trayvon anyway?” I answered that if you listen to the NEN call, George says Trayvon is walking around looking AT houses. We don’t know with 100% certainty that that was what Trayvon was actually doing, but don’t act like George didn’t give NEN a reason for the call, because he DID.

      All of a sudden, the person snipped back, “A-HA! Yet another change in his story! Yeah right, Trayvon was looking IN houses! Whatever! He just made that up to justify his racism! Looking IN houses! ha! As if Trayvon would do that when he knew someone was watching him!”

      Sheesh…I had to instruct them to read my comment again. I said AT houses, not IN. There’s just no excuse for that kind of crap. My statement was right there in black and white for the whole world to see and STILL they got it wrong – and perpetuated it.

      I love my Facebook, but seriously I think you should have to take a competency exam in order to register. I would love to see people charged for the things they say and do on there.

      • myopiafree says:

        Libel laws are rarely enforced. They are hard to “prove”. The Media could have avoided the threat of libel – if they had made an effort to be “clean” in reporting the GZ-TM case – by saying, “alleged killer George Zimmerman”. But they failed to do that – they got sloppy over the years. These issues are generally settled “out of court” by negotiation. After GZ wins Nelson’s release – he will go after the Media – as he should.

    • Liberals USED to be the optimistic ones says:

      Thank ya much,
      the libel laws in the UK have always been more strict than here.

  4. Sha says:

    Rumpole2: Mr. D.J. would you play me a song…. I like this song when I feel a little down. He still loves me by The Fighting Temtations .

  5. Crumpy comparing Fulton to Rosa Parks.

    #NO_LIMIT_ASTRONAUT :3
    Yu aint told me yu swung on a bus driver??
    cracka got mad kuz he got dem bangaz put 2 em by a yung ASTRONAUT :3

    • myopiafree says:

      Hi Fact – I am glad someone his speaking the truth about TM – for a change.
      +++++
      Meet the real Trayvon Martin—A.K.A. @NO_LIMIT_NIGGA
      Well, they say a picture can paint a thousand words:—Here’s some new pictures of Trayvor Martin or as his friends call him on Twitter NO_LIMIT_NIGGA My word, he doesn’t look a bit like the innocent little, black child of 13 years old, the media has been ramming down our throats! He looks every bit what he is—a small time, drug dealing ‘Gangsta’ wannabe!!!

    • nameofthepen says:

      factsobserver says: http://www.icke-exposed.co.uk/united-states/meet-the-real-trayvon-martin-a-k-a-no_limit_nigga/

      :!: Sending out a general S.O.S. to anyone who can answer my question :!:

      Did everyone but me know that Trayvon was without a phone in early February?

      About 1/2-way down the page, on this embedded FaceBook screenshot, he says to his friend, “NO PHON”.

      http://www.icke-exposed.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/OXAjN.png

      So…did everyone else know but me? Or is this news?

      Maybe he just lost it, or it got broken.

      Or, maybe it got taken away because he was “in the doghouse” for something?

      Anyone know the story on this?

      • LandauMurphyFan says:

        I’ve seen it discussed on the treehouse before, but I don’t think any firm conclusion was reached. Some felt that it meant he had no phone for whatever reason; others felt it meant he didn’t want to discuss “business” on the phone, or perhaps didn’t want to discuss it on whatever phone he had at the time (i.e., maybe he didn’t have a burner/disposable phone right then).

        Intriguing, tho, isn’t it?

        • nameofthepen says:

          @ LandauMurphyFan – Thanks very much for the reply. :)

          OK. So it was duly noted. That was my main concern.

          Meanwhile, I read the Wiki article on “tweeting”, this AM, so, now that I know a little more about it, I would think he was ON a phone to say “NO PHON”, which would make suggestion #2 sound the most logical.

          BTW, I also looked up “Landau Murphy”. Whoa!! :shock:

      • ejarra says:

        That tweet was the day before his birthday. Just a guess here, maybe he got a phone with a heart on it for a birthday present from a girl(friend).

        • nameofthepen says:

          Hey, ejarra! :)

          Yes, good point. Thanks so much for the reply.

          Boy, I can hardly wait to see the phone logs discovery data! I bet you can’t either. :D

  6. arkansasmimi says:

    Rene Stutzman‏@renestutzman 1 hr ago
    O’Mara next week to depose Sanford cop who saw grass on #GeorgeZimmerman’s back, wet spot on back. #TrayvonMartin: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-cop-depos-20121116,0,2056863.story

    • arkansasmimi says:

      By Rene Stutzman, Orlando Sentinel
      10:43 a.m. EST, November 16, 2012
      According to new court paperwork, George Zimmerman’s attorneys plan to depose next Tuesday two key Sanford cops: Tim Smith, the first officer on the scene and the man who handcuffed George Zimmerman, and then-Sgt. Randy Smith, the front-line manager who oversaw the police investigation.

      Both men may wind up as key witnesses at Zimmerman’s second-degree murder trial.

      Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin, an unarmed black 17-year-old, in Sanford Feb. 26, setting off weeks of civil rights marches across the country.

      In his police report, Tim Smith wrote that when he got to the scene, he saw that Zimmerman’s back was wet and had grass clippings on it. That suggests the defendant had been on the ground, facing up.

      Tim Smith also wrote that he saw blood coming from Zimmerman’s nose and the back of his head.

      ——————————————————————————–
      Your Black Friday shopping is about to get easier!
      ——————————————————————————–

      Zimmerman, he wrote, complied with his requests, put his hands in the air, allowed the officer to snap on handcuffs and to pull Zimmerman’s handgun from his waist.

      Zimmerman admitted shooting Trayvon, Smith wrote.

      Sanford firefighters cleaned up Zimmerman as he sat in the back of Tim Smith’s patrol car, the officer wrote, and while that was happening, Smith heard him say, ” ‘I was yelling for someone to help me, but no one would help me.’ ”

      That’s important because someone can be heard screaming for help in the background of a 911 call. Travon’s mother says it was Trayvon. Zimmerman says it was him. FBI audio experts tried but failed to identify the voice, saying the recording was of low quality.

      Randy Smith, who has since been promoted to lieutenant, was deeply involved in the investigation. At the time, he was manager of the department’s major crimes section, meaning he was the boss of lead Investigator Chris Serino.

      The day after the shooting, Randy Smith accompanied Serino and Zimmerman to the scene, where Zimmerman re-enacted what he said happened.

      Serino has not yet been deposed, but several other Sanford officers have, including other who were at the scene that night.

      Zimmerman, a former Neighborhood Watch volunteer, says he shot the unarmed teenager in self-defense. Prosecutors allege he spotted a young black man whom he did not recognize, assumed he was about to commit a crime then followed and murdered him

      • mung says:

        I know this was said before, but it is something that could be very key to the case. Why would George say he was calling for help if he wasn’t the one who did it? This was way before anyone knew any of the altercation was caught on tape. To me this proves A: that George really was calling for help, really did try everything in his power to not use deadly force, and really was the victim in this. and B: proves that Team Trayvon is out right lying about it being Trayvon calling for help. I would sure focus on that if I were MOM.

        • hooson1st says:

          Mung:

          I think you are exactly right. That is the most logical conclusion.

          However, you can count onTeam Trayvon to claim that it was Trayvon who was calling and that the wily George, knowing that he had silenced Trayvon forever, brazenly claimed it for himself.

        • sunnieday7 says:

          George knew the neighbors, who were potential witnesses heard screaming for help. I jwant to know why the screaming stopped immediately after the gunshot when George claims he didn’t know he had shot Trayvon and that he was hoping the police would hear him screaming and help him. George also said he rolled Trayvon over and spread his arms out to restrain him because he didn’t know he had shot him. Is George fibbing about something? Why did he stop screaming after the gunshot? Didn’t he care about the police finding him? There is also the possibility both were screaming too. I can’t understand how George did all the screaming when he claims he was being suffocated by Trayvon. There are no muffled sounds to the screams either.

          • James F says:

            Another black neighbor interviewed. @1:20 “His thoughts on 911 call?” “Zimmerman is screaming for help.” “I hear his voice every single day. I talk to him single day.”

            http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=09a_1333314133&comments=1

          • ftsk420 says:

            This is all you need to know ok. Tracy Martin said it wasn’t his son screaming. Until you can come up with a reason why he said that I really don’t feel the need to respond to you any further.

            • sunnieday7 says:

              I doubt Tracy Martin could recognize or wanted to admit it was his son who had been killed.

              I just wanted to know why the screams stopped after the gunshot if we are to believe George wanted help to restrain Trayvon and wanted the police to find him by his screams and yet they stopped after the gunshot. If you accept Tracy Martin’s word for it, then you need to accept his word that his son would not start and altercation with a stranger. I don’t know what happened just trying to figure out why the screaming stopped and why if George was being suffocated, how he managed to continuously scream. I am asking the questions about George’s story like the police did.

              • ftsk420 says:

                “I doubt Tracy Martin could recognize or wanted to admit it was his son who had been killed”

                That’s the best you could come up with? do you have kids? I know for a fact I would recognize my sons voice. So Sybrina reaction to the tape is believable to you? what makes her different then him.

                • sunnieday7 says:

                  I am not believing Sybrina. I am not believing Robert Zimmerman Sr. I am just trying to figure out how George screamed while he was being suffocated or why the screams for help to restrain George stopped after he fired the gun but still wanted help to restrain Trayvon and wanted the police to find him. I am only asking because I listened to the screams for the first time and listened to George’s story about being suffocated and wondered how he managed to scream those blood-curdling screams that I will never listen to again and why they weren’t muffled and why they stopped after the gunshot. That’s all. It’s not a matter of believing one family over another who claims the screaming came from either Trayvon or George.

                  • ftsk420 says:

                    I listened to that tape a million times then I listened again after the TM supporters said it was Georges voice but they added something into it that wasn’t there. When I listen to it there are parts of it that are muffled. If it was TM screaming why didn’t George try to shut him up my covering his mouth. Or shoot him to shut him up or maybe just a pistol whip. Makes no sense for someone winning a fight to scream for help.

                  • treewig says:

                    Who said he screamed while he was being suffocated? GZ says TM tired to cover his mouth and suffocate him. I don’t see anything where he said this occurred the entire length of the struggle and that he could get out any screams. Is it really that surprising that an attacker would attempt to cover up the mouth of someone screaming for help?

                    GZ says as soon as he shot, TM rolled off him and he jumped up to restrain him. A neighbor came around the corner almost immediately and he asked him for help. Ms. Selma relays the same thing (says GZ on top of TM shortly after she heard the shot fired). I imagine it didn’t take long for GZ to realize TM had been shot and wasn’t going to be getting up any time soon.

              • froggielegs says:

                Maybe the screaming stopped because Trayvon looked at George and said, “You got me” Why continue to scream after the person let’s you know they’ve been shot? That’s also how George found out he did in fact shoot Trayvon.

                I can’t believe this has been such a pressing issue for you, enough for you to regurgitate the same question multiple times in one topic, that you didn’t even look at the facts through the evidence in this case. Had you done so, you wouldn’t be asking about blood or DNA of George on Trayvon, injuries other than the gun shot wound on Trayvon, or even when the screaming actually stopped.

                I don’t believe your question is because you truly want to understand but rather just to use a big spoon and stir the pot. Might I suggest you joining JQ. Oh never mind you are probably already a member. Carry On

                • sunnieday7 says:

                  Yes it is a pressing issue for me. I have been lurking here and wondered if someone could answer the simple question as to why the screaming stopped after the gunshot IF George did not know Trayvon was dead and IF he wanted the police to know where he was. I just listened to the tape of the screaming and it was curious to me when compared to George’s story of hoping for help from neighbors and police when he did not know if Trayvon was shot and tried to restrain him after the gunshot.

                  I have no idea what JQ is. As far as stirring a pot, what pot is being stirred by asking honest questions hoping someone who is more familiar with the case could answer.

                  You seem very defensive unlike others who have posted answers to my question.

              • Alexandra M. says:

                It looks like your repetitive question has ALREADY BEEN ANSWERED numerous times. Your ridiculous questioning tells me you’re not even bothering to read the responses. Hmmm…..sorry but your presence here is looking mighty fishy!

                • sunnieday7 says:

                  Fishy? Really? The question has not been answered and I am responding to others who have half-heartedly tried to give an explanation, such as Tracy Martin said it wasn’t his son or GZ was stunned, but now I am getting insults rather than answers. Is it that hard to give some thought to the question because I can assure you the jury will. I’m just an outsider looking in and trying to make some sense of this tragedy without maligning the families or the witnesses.

                  • dmoseylou says:

                    As I posted up-thread…well, it’s you again. Name is changed, again. Writing is the same, again. Tenacious troll, again. {{{Yaaaawn, again.}}}

                  • sunnieday7 says:

                    FYI, the ignorance displayed by those who think I have posted here before or am using 3 different names or I am a troll or fishy just makes me think y’all don’t have answers so you attack the poster.

                    I have no reason to use 3 different names to post here. Do you use 3 different names to post here? Maybe you are judging others by yourself. Comprehend? I asked a legitimate question and I get attacked. I guess you will have to attack the jury when they have the same questions regarding George’s screaming story.

                  • ftsk420 says:

                    I seriously doubt the jury will even hear it. There is no way to tell who is screaming TM supporters say it’s TM and Zimmerman supporters say it’s Zimmerman. The only real difference is we have heard Zimmerman speak many times and we have heard his brother. We haven’t heard anything except that 7-11 video which shows TM voice nothing from his parents or friends relatives fake girlfriend nothing. I find it hard to believe there is no recording of his voice. With no way to prove either or that tape won’t be used.

              • Knuckledraggingwino says:

                I have an idea for an experiment to test your theory about the screaming.

                I’ll sucker punch you, breaking your nose, then mount you and continue beating you MMA, except I’ll pound your head into concrete rather than a thickly padded mat. Assuming you survive for any significant time, you will scream while I am beating you then stop screaming when I stop beating you.

            • arkansasmimi says:

              Yep, thats something I would like to know too. Hmmm wonder if TrayDad can answer it? He did, said it wasnt TRAYVON!

          • treewig says:

            I agree with the sentiment that its possible GZ could have lied about himself screaming for help to cover up, if it were true that TM was the one screaming (ie, I don’t think its any sort of proof that it was him screaming just because he said so after the fact). I think its immensely clear from hearing the voices of GZ and TM that it was GZ’s voice recorded screaming for help on that 911 call (W-6’s testimony seems to help that conclusion).

            As for why the screaming stopped with the gunshot, anyone can provide a theory. One could be that the person screaming got shot, the other could be that the person screaming was no longer being held down and beaten. Given that no one had come to help while the screams rang out for the past minute, he was on his own to contain Martin, I don’t see either explanation being more or less reasonable.

            • sunnieday7 says:

              Where did you hear Trayvon’s voice?

              • James F says:

                7-11 video with audio. Trayvon answers his phone and he has a very deep voice like his father.

              • Nettles18 says:

                Trayvon’s brother can’t say if it’s him in this CBS interview. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhxsOE374q4&feature=youtu.be

                It would take a special person, to watch this kid scream for at least 40 seconds, shoot him, know that at least one witness saw the 2 of you fighting, and then tell EMT and police the screams of the kid were actually the shooters. No way, I just don’t believe GZ did that. He was the one injured. He had to have been in shock minutes after this harrowing event. No reason for the person winning the assault, to yell for help.

                A mother knows her kid’s voice. Sybrina wanted those 911 and NEN tapes released. That is why she told the Mayor it was Trayvon. To date, only Robert Zimmerman Jr. has shown the willingness to say under oath who was yelling. I note neither Sybrina nor Tracy took the stand at the bond hearing to refute RZ’s testimony and they were right there in the courtroom. They let his testimony stand. That speaks volumes.

          • myopiafree says:

            Hi Sunn – George knew he SHOT TM, and TM sat up and said somthing. He did not know that he KILLED TM at that point. People do live for some time after being shot – you know.

            • ftsk420 says:

              100% correct I have seen it with my own eyes. I saw someone shot in the head by a 9mm and run 2 blocks before falling to the ground and he lived. Friend of mine was shot 14 times with an uzi and drove himself to the hospital.There is a reason most police officer use a .40cal instead of a 9mm.

          • AghastInFL says:

            The scream ends BEFORE the shot is fired, not after.
            I find that further evidence as to the voice of the screamer, once he took control of his weapon the impetus changes and then as the attacker sits up allowing GZ to free himself he does so… immediately a neighbor arrives upon the scene; the timing can not be ignored sunnie.

      • James F says:

        Encouraged by their new policy, I was hoping GZlegalcase would have posted this document on their site closer to the time that the media gets a hold of it. It is listed on the Seminole Clerk page put it is not on the public accessible site yet.

        http://www.seminoleclerk.org/CriminalDocket/case_detail.jsp?CaseNo=592012CF001083A

        http://www.flcourts18.org/presspublic.html

      • thefirstab says:

        OK Rene…. after catching up on several other GZ threads and noticing some comments that Rene is “toeing the line” (she is a career journalist, and Ilm quite sure she has considered all angles of this case, incl. Pulitzer opp’y) but I have to comment on several things in above: IMO these are designed to continue the inflammatory, divisive nature of this case, to gain readership)
        Use of “unarmed teenager” in opening and closing – enough said. But why didn’t she add “after allegedly pounding GZ’s head on the concrete walkway” or similar after “spotted a young black man…”. Throw that race card out there, too.
        That’s the type of yellow journalism that keeps this stuff stirred up, IMO. Legal Dept. better have another chat w/her.
        .

        • hooson1st says:

          thefirstab:

          You raise a good point, and it should be raised further with a non-inflammatory email to the reporter.

          Bear in mind, as for this particular article and/or others; we don’t necessarily know exactly what the reporter initially wrote. We read the final – edited – product. Many times phrases are taken out, etc. by an editor, for a variety of reasons.

          Reporters, in general, respond better to thoughtful comments, and less so to charges of yellow journalism.

          Reporters get a lot of sharp and nasty and many times, unwarranted, criticism, from all sides. This is particularly true in this email/internet age. In a highly-charged public case like this one, the criticisms get downright mean with allegations of conspiracies and prejudice abounding.

          They don’t have time to filter through all the caustic verbiage to find some nugget of common sense that has been overlooked and the like. The learn to tune out the outlier commentary and chalk it up to background noise.

          • thefirstab says:

            True, hooson. Appreciate your thoughtful reply. Having worked within a (previously) mid-to-large newspaper operation however, the editing that used to take place is now much more of DIY, usually to fit the article/news account into allotted space.
            I think I’ll use your suggestion to send her an email, we’ll see how that experiment goes. I agree the criticisms via the web are typically nasty.

          • jello333 says:

            Very good advice. And just reading over that article, it looks to me like maybe certain bits and pieces were from much older articles. You know… just cut-and-paste. So that could explain part of it. I just wouldn’t wanna jump on Rene TOO much, because it really does look to me that she’s been trying to be more fair over the past couple months or so. But one relatively minor thing that she and all other reporters should work on: If you’re gonna use George’s last name, also use Trayvon’s last name; if you’re gonna use Trayvon’s first name, also use George’s first name.

  7. Tuduri says:

    It is not hard to assume that the George’s screaming stopped once his assailant stopped grasping at him and beating his head into the sidewalk. If I’m not mistaken, George knew his gun had fired, but he wasn’t sure he had actually hit Trayvon. George was also probably in a state of shock from the ordeal and the sound of the gunshot in close proximity. The moisture and grass on George’s back, the injuries to his nose and back of the head and the injury to Trayvon’s knuckle’s is consistent with eyewitness evidence that Trayon was beating on George while George lay on his back.

    It is clear that Trayvon attacked George and that George defended himself. It is shameful that the race hustlers like Crump and Sharpton have attempted to turn this into a racially motivated incident.

  8. Preston says:

    I think we have a few new trolls ( well one posting as a few) Polite trolls so far but trolls

    • dmoseylou says:

      Sunnie uses at least 3 diff names when here. That one’s MO is to be polite, but tenacious. Just goes on and on with the same ol’ same ol’. It will not leave until it is starved and must slither back to the sewers to feed.

      • selfdefenseadvocate says:

        Yep, you got it right dmoseylou and we know who she (it) really is. You nailed it too Alexandra M. “It” gets lonesome under the troll bridge with no one to throw it bait, so it comes over here to stir up trouble. It hates to be ignored. The way I see it, all of her brilliant theories and “innocent” questions don’t mean a thing unless she lives in Florida and is a potential juror. (She doesn’t and she isn’t or maybe I should say She don’t and she ain’t so her fellow trolls can understand).

        • sunnieday7 says:

          I have not posted here under another name and your paranoia and refusal to accept facts only makes me question your judgement of George. Believe it or not, lots of people, including the state of Florida are questioning George’s story. And down the road the jurors trying to make sense of it as well. And they aren’t trolls or people posting to stir pots or using duplicate screen names. If you look beyond this website you will see what I am telling you is true. As evidence comes out, people are wondering what is up because George’s story is not making sense. And the jury will see the same evidence.

          • ftsk420 says:

            Wow you are really misinformed aren’t you. Email Alan Dershowitz then come back and post. If you have posted under another screen name before Sundance and the mods will know and I’m sure you will be dealt with.

            • sunnieday7 says:

              I invite Sundance to look into my history of posting here. Then Sundance or mods will know what total paranoid fools are posting in support of George.

              I really don’t care about what Alan Dershowitz has to say. I am more interested in why 2nd degree murder charges were brought against George and what witnesses have to say. I am not caring what people who weren’t there have to say, including the Zimmerman family or the Martin family. I would be more interested in what the forensics are than someone who is emotionally invested in this case or a lawyer stating his opinion on a paid TV appearance.

              • ftsk420 says:

                If you don’t care what people have to say that weren’t there then why are you here. None of us were there and neither were you.

                • dmoseylou says:

                  The more it posts, the more I laugh. This, IMO, is its’ best laughter-inducing post yet!

                  “I invite Sundance to look into my history of posting here. Then Sundance or mods will know what total paranoid fools are posting in support of George.”

                  Bwaahahahahahahahahahaha!

                • sunnieday7 says:

                  It is interesting to me to see how far people will go out on a limb to support either Trayvon and George and I was wondering if anyone saw actual evidence to be sure they were supporting the right person George vs Trayvon. But for me to side with Alan Dershowitz or Trayvon’s parents or George’s parents would be ridiculous. Makes me think there is some sort of agenda to take a side. I just want to know as close to the truth if what happened from the witnesses, investigators and what forensics show. Not for nothing was George charged. Now I want to know why, what the prosecution has learned.

                  • ftsk420 says:

                    The answer to why he was charged is simple. It was done to ease the racial tension nothing more. The prosecution has Dee Dee that’s it.

            • Ad rem says:

              Commenter has been “sunnieday7″….same email and IP since 9/12/12.

          • ftsk420 says:

            One more thing go look at the polls conducted more people believe George then they do the prosecution.

        • dmoseylou says:

          Oh, Yeah. We know exactly who it is. Same TrayTroll that was outed by several people here a couple of months ago, complete with screenshots…I do declare, I do believe it was trying to Witch-Slap me with her above post at 6:11 pm. It gets nasty if not allowed to gorge itself here.

    • Alexandra M. says:

      No doubt about it! Those trolls are sure obvious with all the feigned ignorance and “What? Me? I’m just an honest person seeking answers” bullcrap!!

  9. maggiemoowho says:

    One way to solve the whole scream issue is to ask SF, BigTM and GZ’s Father to take a lie detector test. My guess is GZ father would be the only one that would agree and show up for the test. SF(Cupcake) showed zero reaction to hearing those screams during a GZ hearing. Not a tear shed while hearing what she claims to be her sons cries for help before being killed and when GZ father said they were GZ’s not TM’s, again nothing from the cupcake gallery. Not a normal response for a Mother. If my son was supposedly hunted down and screaming for his life and I knew for a fact that he was screaming for help on a tape, I would be damned if I would sit there and let the accused family claim otherwise. How many more stories and lies can Camp TM come up with.

    • Ricky Jimenez says:

      I most certainly disagree that lie detector tests would settle anything. It is quite conceivable that all the parties who have identified the scream are sincere in believing that they can recognize the voice. However logic indicates that they can’t. If the police were really super competent, they would have prepared samples of 15 or so people screaming while on the ground at the same location and transmitted by the same cellphone and seeing if anybody could pick out the right one from the lineup of screams.

      Has anybody recorded themselves screaming and compared it to their ordinary voice? I have and I see no connection.

      • ftsk420 says:

        It’s not gonna be the same result unless they are getting their heads slammed into the ground. It’s not easy to recreate a scream like that unless you recreate the entire event.

      • jello333 says:

        Yeah, but you should read again what Maggiemoo said, about Tracy and Sybrina’s lack of reaction/emotion during the 2nd bond hearing. THAT, right there, is probably the strongest evidence I’ve seen as to who is screaming. Just watch those two. They know, they KNOW with certainty that it’s not Trayvon screaming. And they KNOW that George didn’t “hunt down and murder” Trayvon. Watch them. And watch their reactions toward George…. this “cold-blooded murderer” sitting just a few feet from them. They KNOW what the truth is.

  10. ftsk420 says:

    sunnieday7 says:
    November 16, 2012 at 6:11 pm
    FYI, the ignorance displayed by those who think I have posted here before or am using 3 different names or I am a troll or fishy just makes me think y’all don’t have answers so you attack the poster.

    I’m responding to you this way because there was no reply button under your post.
    First of all I never once said you are a troll and I never said you use 3 different screen names. Talk about ignorance. I also gave you multiple reasons to your questions but none of them seem to fit whatever your agenda is. I have seen more then 5 people respond to the question you threw out but none of them matter to you either. I feel there is nothing more to say to you why don’t you give a reason for your own question cause at this point it’s like beating a dead horse.

  11. Ricky Jimenez says:

    To the person who thinks that the cease in the screaming at the time of the shot is evidence that the shot person is screaming. There are several distinct screams on the tape. One might ask why each of them stopped Firing a gun requires a physical effort and causes one’s body to recoil. Certainly Zimmerman realized immediately that there was a sudden change in the forces on his body, in particular those being applied by the person on top of him. A change in what your voice is doing might be thought of as a reasonable reaction (think Newton’s third law) to the change of forces. The cellphone only picked up very loud noises from outside the townhouse. Zimmerman might have continued some lower amplitude vocalizations after the shot.

    The only decent evidence, so far, as to who was screaming is W#6’s claim, near the end of his FLDE interview, that while Zimmerman was on the ground facing him, he heard a clear yell with no echo from the yell being bounced off the houses across the dog walk, the latter being faced by Martin at the time W#6 heard the scream. I have suggested to the defense that they check out whether this is an obvious effect at that location. They wrote back that they would send my suggestion to their research team.

  12. ftsk420 says:

    sunnieday7 says:
    November 16, 2012 at 7:32 pm
    I’m paying attention and I would suggest not to project your drinking habits onto other posters.

    Lmfao! sorry but I don’t drink good try though.

    “drop you down a level to a paranoid supporter who can’t wrap their brain around the fact that George is charged with 2nd degree murder and not without evidence to support it”

    LOL again show me evidence of 2nd degree murder. I support the truth like others it’s not about George it just so happens his name is attached to it. I’m only after the truth. See over the past what 7 months we have seen many posters do what you do. Ask a question over and over even though you have been given the answer. You don’t seem to care that the tapes won’t make it to court just like you don’t seem to care TM committed a felony against George. So since this is a battle of wits and you happen to be unarmed I will leave you alone till you come back with some ammunition.

  13. sunnieday7 says:

    I asked a question that I did not receive appropriate answers to, just excuses. I don’t care if screams are not admissible in court, it speaks to George’s credibility in other matters that will be admissible in court, such as his NEN call. I don’t know if TM committed a felony until I hear all the witnesses. Till then I have to accept George’s word for it and I don’t think (like the police) his injuries appear life-threatening. I don’t know if his nose was broken. I have to accept George’s word for it because in spite of what he felt were life-threatening injuries, he refused to seek a physician’s evaluation in a hospital setting. I know if my head were bashed into concrete multiple times till I felt I needed to kill someone, I would want to know about internal injuries I might have that could only be diagnosed in a hospital setting.

    I do know that Trayvon would never have crossed paths with George unless George saw him as a suspect. I have questions as to why George considered him a suspect and why he did not identify himself when allegedly Trayvon asked him if he had a problem.

    I hope this goes to trial and questions are answered by witnesses, evidence and forensics. If not, George will never truly clear his name.

    You are once again using diversion tactics with drinking and aren’t as clever as you think you are. I suspect you are more familiar with drunks than I am.

    • Preston says:

      Your not as “clever as you think you are” your not.. You came here and your post’s are nothing more than to stir the pot. It’s the same question and statement over and over. It’s not up to you to decide if George was in fear of his life. I would have done the same. George saved his own life that night.! You can ask about DNA you can ask about the screams you can ask about anything. BUT THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS IS GEORGE SAVED HIS OWN LIFE THAT NIGHT.! IF IF IF well its because because because.

    • raiikun says:

      You are not required in Florida to take any injury at all before acting in self defense, so how “life threatening” his injuries are is a red herring. What justifies force in self defense is a reasonable belief that said force is needed to PREVENT serious bodily injury.

      And anyone pinned to the ground, unable to get away, taking injury for the better part of a minute, would have reasonable fear of imminent bodily injury.

    • Chip Bennett says:

      I asked a question that I did not receive appropriate answers to, just excuses.

      You were given several credible answers to your asinine question; that you chose not to accept them is your problem, not ours.

      I don’t care if screams are not admissible in court, it speaks to George’s credibility in other matters that will be admissible in court, such as his NEN call.

      Wrong. Martin committed felony aggravated battery against Zimmerman when he sucker-punched him in the nose (PROTIP: the medical record confirms his nose was broken), and when he got on top of him while on the ground, pinned him there, prevented him from getting up, and pummeled him (PROTIP: multiple witness testimonies confirm that Martin was on top of Zimmerman; EMS witness testimony confirm Zimmerman’s bloodied state).

      Till then I have to accept George’s word for it and I don’t think (like the police) his injuries appear life-threatening.

      Florida statutes do not require Zimmerman to have sustained life-threatening injuries; rather, Florida statutes require that a reasonable person would fear a threat to life or imminent bodily harm. Zimmerman easily surpasses such a threshold.

      I don’t know if his nose was broken.

      The medical record in evidence confirms Zimmerman’s nose was broken.

      I have to accept George’s word for it…

      Yes, you do. And legally, so does the State: because Zimmerman is afforded the presumption of innocence. And the State is already on record, in court, stating that they have no evidence to refute Zimmerman’s testimony.

      I know if my head were bashed into concrete multiple times till I felt I needed to kill someone, I would want to know about internal injuries I might have that could only be diagnosed in a hospital setting.

      Well, bully for you; but that’s entirely irrelevant to the case at hand.

      I do know that Trayvon would never have crossed paths with George unless George saw him as a suspect.

      Zimmerman viewing Martin as a “suspect” is not illegal, and does not cause him to forfeit his legal right to self defense.

      I have questions as to why George considered him a suspect and why he did not identify himself when allegedly Trayvon asked him if he had a problem.

      Why Zimmerman viewed Martin as a suspect is likewise irrelevant, and Zimmerman bore no legal responsibility to identify himself. Failure to disclose his identity, or anything else, did not cause Zimmerman to forfeit his legal right to self defense.

      I hope this goes to trial and questions are answered by witnesses, evidence and forensics. If not, George will never truly clear his name.

      This case will never see a jury. Zimmerman will be granted immunity – an act that will inherently “clear” his name.

      Now, do you have anything substantive to add to the discussion? (Don’t worry; that’s rhetorical.)

      • raiikun says:

        A bit of a tangent, but that’s one thing I find amusing is how stuck people are on the broken nose. “But there’s no PROOF that it’s absolutely, positively, completely, 100%, without a doubt sure that it’s broken!”

        The PA diagnosis, the photo of the swollen, distorted nose, W11’s testimony that he looked so messed up she didn’t recognize him, the EMT’s testimony, the pain, blood, swelling, and tenderness, are going to hold FAR more weight in court than “but we’re not really really really really sure it was broken are we?”

        • Chip Bennett says:

          Remember: we’re largely dealing with the reality-based community – that is to say: regardless of what all the evidence indicates, they create their own reality.

          That’s how they can, with a straight face, claim that there’s no evidence that Zimmerman’s nose was broken, while at the same time claim that it’s proven beyond doubt that Zimmerman stalked, hunted down, and murdered Martin.

      • sunnieday7 says:

        Chip you are a pompous jerk who is dealing with wishful thinking. A teen who just turned 17 was killed and you seem to have no remorse or regrets while justifying George’s actions on 02/26. You sir, are sickening.

        • Ad rem says:

          Enjoy you last hateful remark. You are outta here.
          Admin…..

          • jello333 says:

            Arrgghhh!! Puddy, why would you?! Now how’s she supposed to respond to my later comments? ;)

            • Ad rem says:

              I’ll let ya know if she offers up any stellar insight….but, don’t hold your breath. ;-)

            • jordan2222 says:

              Jello: I am inclined to believe that you seriously do enjoy serious controversy. LOL. You seriously tickle me when you engage idiots as if you seriously expect a serious response. Now, seriously, Jello, why are your comments to these folks so serious?

              Sorry for my seriously limited vocabulary.

            • rumpole2 says:

              Things are VERY slow over at JQ… this troll obviously is starved of opportunities to “argue” (poor cow)
              It’s their own fault of course.. they Bullied and banned quite a large group of people wanting to put both sides of the discussion…. they decreed TM was a “Victim” and so the truth could not be posted if it included facts about TM. They recently banned Truthiness who was one of the last voices of reason… they still have Sherp but he (she) largely rolls over for tummy rubs when the going gets tough :)
              You actually got the place humming on your occasional visits.. but they are so stupid they did not appreciate the boost to discussion.. they banned you too.
              Hidden away in shame they have become even more of an irrelevant farce than they used to be. The whole point of such “Tue Crime Discussion Forums” is to air discussion and attract public attention. The members themselves crave public attention. They actually LOVE the little bit of attention we give them. That is why they read here and copy stuff from here back at the Nest. It is really the only attention they get now. Without us they are just engaging in a bizarre variation of Forum masturbation…. playing with themselves and clearly already going blind because of it… they can not even see the facts of the case.

        • Chip Bennett says:

          Wishful thinking?

          I demonstrate that all publicly available evidence and testimony supports Zimmerman’s claim of self-defense, and keep asking for objective, empirical evidence to refute Zimmerman’s testimony, much less prove second-degree murder. In return, I am given assertions, theories, narratives, and conjecture. (And for good measure: ad hominem.)

          In that regard, you proved to be no different. c’est la vie

          • thefirstab says:

            Chip B – I admire your responses to the Troll. I’m surprised you weren’t hit with the official Zinger, “you’re a racccciiiiisssss”. Isn’t this the Ace that usually comes out when logic and critical thinking and FACTS are ignored, as it doesn’t support their narrative? Kind of like a jubilant “Checkmate”..

        • jello333 says:

          You realize, don’t you, that the fact that Trayvon had just turned 17 is of NO significance, right? Every day in this country, there are many cases of “children” that young and much younger committing serious, violent, often vicious crimes… up to and including torture and murder. And there are many VIDEOS of “children” committing violent, pre-mediated attacks on innocent people… and then LAUGHING about it. Of course we don’t know if Trayon was that type of person or not. But that’s not the point. The point is, his age has ZERO to do with how he might have acted that night.

          • raiikun says:

            Yeah, that’s one of the basic responses I often see when they don’t have any valid rebuttals to the facts. “But he was 17!” “What if he was your kid?”

            They’re basically demanding that we stop viewing this from an impartial, rational viewpoint and judge this from emotion instead. And justice doesn’t work that way, it’s best adjudicated fairly and rationally, not out of emotion and feelings.

            • jello333 says:

              Yeah, they’ve tried to throw that in my face before, but it doesn’t work. “But what if Trayvon was your son? Can you imagine how you might feel, seeing what happened to him?” My response is, “Yes I can, and I can also imagine what I might feel like if GEORGE was my son, seeing what has happened to HIM.”

        • froggielegs says:

          Well so much for that little story of just being an innocent bystander searching for truth. HA looks like we all had you pegged a mile away. Pfffffttt. Cya troll. Don’t let the door hit ya where the Good Lord split ya.

        • rumpole2 says:

          Sounds like the booze caught up or the tranquiizing meds ran out?

      • myopiafree says:

        Hi Chip – that is one of the best written, articulate analysis I have seen in a long time. +1,000

        • kathyca says:

          Agree! I’ve said it before, Chip could handle the immunity hearing with BOTH hands tied behind his back. I’d like to see him and West take it on together.

          • Chip Bennett says:

            But see: that’s what is so infuriating about this case. I’m just a layman. Before the Zimmerman case, I didn’t have intimate familiarity with Florida self-defense law. But when I wanted to know what it was, I just looked it up and read it, straight out of the statutes. If I, a layman, can read, parse, and understand Florida self-defense statutes, then I can only assume that so can everyone else.

            The way I see it, either people are simply acting like sheeple, and believing what they hear on TV, or else they are blindly driven by emotion to believe Zimmerman’s guilt regardless of the statutes, or else they know the statutes and know that Zimmerman has a legal claim of self defense, but are intentionally obfuscating that knowledge for political and/or financial gain.

            And then, realizing that Zimmerman was acting completely in self-defense – and thus realizing the living hell that he has endured physically, emotionally, psychologically, financially, and in every other way – it is all the more infuriating to know that an innocent man is being put through this ordeal because of mind-numbed sheeple, bigots, and political/financial opportunists.

            A man minding his own business was looking out for his neighbors’ interests, got jumped and brutally attacked, was ignored by the very neighbors whose interests he was looking out for, and then had to kill to defend himself. And after enduring that, he gets railroaded by the the authorities who placed politics over justice.

            And any one of us could be in his shoes.

            That is why we must remain steadfast in his defense, and that is why I don’t mind playing Whack-A-Troll, in an effort to refute their nonsense.

            • dmoseylou says:

              Whack-A-Troll. That is a nic I have not seen in a long, long time. The W-A-T I once knew was always a voice of reason, hurling trolls back into the sewers they crawled out of, with his unSLANTED presentation of knowledge of law and fact. I greatly respected him, as I do you. Your posts are always excellent!

            • AghastInFL says:

              Well stated, I appreciate your comments and tireless advocacy.

          • jordan2222 says:

            You know, kathyca…. We really do have some talented folks here. Each of us has our own place in the TH and everyone has mutual respect. That makes us unique and a step above the others.

            Do you remember the thread when we reached our 5 million visitors milestone? If you go back and look at the comments that SD made about each member, you will know how much time he has invested in all of us. I was in awe of his perspective.

            That thread is like a mini bio of each of us, and I would suggest that new folks look at it to become familiar with our individual idiosyncrasies and quirks.

            • myopiafree says:

              Hi Jordan – just a side comment. (In a good sense.) I can not believe the number of hours I have spent “defending” George here at TreeHouse – and that goes FOR ALL OF US. We have an innate sens of justice and fair treatment. That is my personal sense of these issues – but I can only speak for myself.

            • jello333 says:

              I’ll second that, it really was a great thread. Loved how Sundance and others praised, and gave their opinions of many members. If I recall correctly, SD said something like you were the kind of guy who opens up an Oreo and examines in thoroughly before deciding to take a bite. ;)

              • jordan2222 says:

                I forgot about the oreo but I am the curious, inquiring type in my search for Truth. I try not take anything at face value. You cannot judge a book by its cover and both mainstream parties are wrapped in pretty paper that conceals who and what they really are. And so it is about many things in life.

                “There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance — that principle is contempt prior to investigation.”

      • rumpole2 says:

        Great post. I posted a link at Random Topics.

        I have been watching the troll posts and some great responses. I you feel like feeding a troll it can be a good opportunity to restate some sensible information.
        Trolls usually report back to the Mother Ship, I doubt you will be quoted accurately, but it will at least stir up the nest a little. :D

        • jello333 says:

          And I SO wanna see MOM and West use the word “protip” in open court when correcting Bernie!

        • jordan2222 says:

          rumpole2

          I need to get back over there. You and Dman give us another perspective about a lot of things,

          • rumpole2 says:

            Thanks.
            I agree that DMan does great work on details I am a bit lazy on :D

            I can not match the responses here to the trolls.. Chip Bennet especially expresses the rational case very well.
            I noticed that sunnieday7 objected to being classified as “TROLL” but TROLL is exactly what he/she is. The same old points/questions repeated despite answers given. Still back “arguing” the most basic of points.. long since asked and answered… and largely IRRELEVANT to the central issue of the case (Simple self defence as GZ was pinned and being beaten)
            These people imagine that there will be some sort of fantasy trial… with GZ taken to task line by line, word by word, comma by comma, for his version of events. They seem to expect hours of testimony on how tall TM was, how many feet from the T the body ended up, how broken GZ’s nose was, whether or not GZ’s head wounds were as bad as wounds imagined in fictional anecdotes etc

          • rumpole2 says:

            ADMIN!
            Help! I am stuck in the spam filter :eek:
            Photobucket

            • Ad rem says:

              Photobucket
              Sheesh!!! This time I needed the paws of life….how’d you get so stuck? ;-)

              • rumpole2 says:

                Sorry… I iz forgets and I type notty namz sometimes. :(

              • rumpole2 says:

                Sometimes a curious cat does get stuck.

              • Ad rem says:

                Aw……for a second I thought that was my buddy “Maru”. :-D

                  • Ad rem says:

                    *Sigh*….I’m afraid the Trayvon Trolls offer nothing more than rabid tedium. Now this little number….(from the Clyburn thread)….offers amusement for all. ;-)
                    “You’re the racist, you tea bagging parasitic subhuman. Your excrement filled state is sucking up far more government aid than any ten blue states. Hypocrite much? How much stimulus money did you take, while simultaneously denouncing our president as a communist, Muslim, Kenyan, Alinskyist, etc…? Please secede asap and don’t let the door hit you in your fat Confederate flag covered ass on the way out. We beat you in 1865, 2008 and 2012. The south will never rise again as long as vermin like you reside there. Adios, amigo!”

          • dmoseylou says:

            I agree 100%. Seriously.

    • yankeeintx says:

      Just because you are not happy with any answers given to your question, doesn’t mean you weren’t answered. It sounds like you came with an agenda to get a specific answer, but the agenda here is the truth, sorry if it doesn’t fit with what you were wanting. In the upper right hand corner you can access all the research that has been done, and there are many links to all of the evidence. I suggest you start there. You mentioned DNA on TM’s hands, but obviously are not aware that they only tested scrapings from his fingernails. If you want to know why they didn’t swab his knuckles, palms, fingers or wrists, you’ll need to ask the ME. MOM will be disposing him soon, and that might be what he wants to know also. Again, you’ve been given answers that are logical based on all the evidence, if they don’t make sense to you maybe you should explain why, and what your opinion might be.

  14. Chip Bennett says:

    @sunnieday7:

    I don’t think George planned second-degree murder. Actually to be honest, I don’t think George seems to be mentally stable but that is an unprofessional opinion after seeing his failures, debt problems and other factors with his family.. Maybe he was under stress from not graduating or achieving his goals. Maybe he was trying to prove something to his friend Mark Osterman or to his family who he was reported to be estranged from. I think George may have gotten caught up in a situation and also had preconceived notions about suspicious people. I can’t get into George’s mind but he seems a very troubled individual. Unfortunately his troubles ended up with a 2nd degree murder charge and this will forever change his life whether he is convicted or freed.

    So what you’re really saying is: based on your preconceived notions about George Zimmerman – notions completely absent any basis in empirical evidence – you believe he is guilty of murder.

    Fair enough; but at least you could have been honest about that up front, instead of pretending to be some sort of uninformed truth-seeker. Because let’s be clear: none of the empirical evidence or witness testimony in this case supports your preconceived notions about Zimmerman, nor the conclusions regarding his guilt that you’ve derived from those notions.

    The State has no evidence to refute Zimmerman’s testimony or to prove second-degree murder.

    You have no evidence to refute Zimmerman’s testimony or to prove second-degree murder.

    The Scheme Team has no evidence to refute Zimmerman’s testimony or to prove second-degree murder.

    (Are we noticing a pattern here?)

  15. Hugh Stone says:

    Sunny, if GZ felt his life was in danger at that moment, it is all that matters. Not what the injuries turned out to be later. Sorry to break the news to ya.

  16. Pingback: Trollololo «

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